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Sometimes I feel like defending Xander. This annoys me. It's not like I can stand the character or anything, but the hate... It's so pervasive that it's a little hard to take seriously when people reach so hard to make excuses for other characters
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Also I think that Xander has just dated terribly as a character quite honestly, it's that very 90's mindset of the geeky guy who hates the more cool guys and mopes over not getting the girl, today's audiences will immediately be turned off at being asked to root for that kind of "nice guy"
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I wonder if it's partly about Xander and Willow being perceived as Joss's favourites?
I don't think a lot of them even know that, especially regarding Willow. I think you're right that they're for the most part antagonists for the side characters they've latched on to and deified. Willow was against Cordy, Faith and Anya. Xander the same, plus Spike.
I think what bothers me is those characters aren't exactly flawless, either, but they'll create these backstories about how they're sympathetic no matter what or how if they change then their past should disappear.
Like, I guess it's a big thing to really wish for Cordy to come back to Sunnydale in 5 or 6 and show the Scoobies her awesomeness and they'll bow and worship and repent. Why on Earth would they be cowed by Cordy? They'd been doing what she'd been doing since they were 16. Cordy mocks them even when she's on AtS, but no one can say a word about her.
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I don't know, I've seen quite a few complaints on Willow being Joss's pet favourite and being unfairly protected by the writers in season 6, and of course there's the perception (rightly or wrongly) of Xander being based on Joss. I think that attitude is a factor when it comes to the ~core scoobies~ being seen as being unfairly valued by the writers over their significant others, Anya and Cordelia especially seemed to always have their pov's favoured by fandom over Xander partly because of that IMO, fans seemed to get defensive on their behalf when they perceived the show as treating them dismissively
And oh absolutely, I like Cordelia fine, but the fandom behind her these days is just way too much. She was a bully, and she acted very entitled and superior when she appeared on Buffy, that's just fact. She was almost always funny with it too of course and had some great lines, and the character certainly developed a lot on Angel, but come on at how her fans now try and spin her into being ( ... )
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I've seen quite a few complaints on Willow being Joss's pet favourite and being unfairly protected by the writers in season 6
Oh, I've seen that, but not really in the new fandom. Most of the complaints I've seen there are about S6. I can agree with the notion that Willow seemed to benefit from a lot of double standards, but so did Faith and Anya.
I tend to think it stems from the fact that she lived whereas most of their faves died and They Deserved Better.
I love how they take "tact is just not saying true stuff" as her mission statement and act like that somehow makes her better, even though the show was always very clear about high school Cordelia just not caring enough about whether her words would hurt others
Especially when the thing she said that about wasn't even true. The whole point of that comment was to show how full of herself she was. I saw a comment once that expressed outrage that Buffy said Glory reminded her of Cordy? Guess what, she *does* remind you of Cordy personality-wise.
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Well, that *is* Joss. It's kind of a dated 90's thing like frelling said, I suppose. But again, so does Faith and yet they cheer and ship her with everyone.
Maybe kids these days don't talk like that anymore and that's why they see slashiness everywhere. If you ever listened to a Joss interview (he and Goddard's CiTW commentary is an example), they make suggestive comments about each other all the time. With Xander, I think it's more they don't like him, which is valid, so they work backwards and cherry-pick reasons to support it.
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For what it's worth - this goes for every character - they were all flawed. I think Xander actually had fewer flaws, it's just that his were on constant display.
As for slash - Spander has been a pretty dominant pairing, and that's not kids thee days.
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they were all flawed.
That was the point. The question was why people are willing to make up backstories for other characters to "explain" (and thus excuse even if they say otherwise) their behavior. The first words out of Cordy's mouth regarding Faith are about as bad as Xander said.
As for slash - Spander has been a pretty dominant pairing, and that's not kids thee days.
Slashing has always been popular. There is a difference in the tone with which those pairings are treated now, though. Taking an exchange and rolling with it knowing it was a joke vs actually believing there was intent to create a pairing and calling baiting when it's not continued.
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That's really my problem with Xander - though he is nowhere near any of the Riley mess. I look for in-universe motivations and stories - and it's on that level that he becomes a hypocrite.
The funny thing is the because his faults are so human it doesn't take much to identify with/and or against him. Magic addiction - not an issue in most lives - but we have all been on the receiving end and on the giving end. We hated the first, and are ashamed of the second so it triggers a whole different set of feelings.
And the sexual comments amount to harassment now - though they were humor back then (or at least attempts at humor).
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Oh, I don't care for either very much, trust me. :P I can take a hypocrite a little as long as the story twitches its nose a little at it.
But like you said, no one in the story ever really makes the Spike (or even Angel)--Anya comparison. The only time they do is in S7 where they seem to attempt to imply that Spike being controlled by the First is somehow equatable to Anya willfully choosing to kill people. It isn't, of course, but Buffy is the only one who mentions the whole choice in the matter thing.
I wasn't really trying to defend Xander in the post because a person makes their own choices. Even though he came from a crappy, emotionally-handicapping background, the damage he does is his. The post is more of a ramble about the fandom hypocrisy that oft tries to claim that he's the worst because of this vs. others who are excused because of their "hard life".
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Oh, I don't like either myself. They're both pretty bad. In terms of bad deeds done, though, Faith is probably a more horrible person, yet you see lengthy fansplanations to apologize for her crap.
Good for the goose, good for the gander. Make excuses for one, make them for them all.
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She's so horrible in Buffy season 3. I don't know how anybody can defend that.
3 and 4. Mostly it boils down to wanting to like her, which leads to selective memory and bizarre text interpretations. It was Faith that betrayed Buffy (and the rest) at every turn, yet you'll hear the opposite. Her turning bad was all their fault: they should have took her in and fed and clothed her! Faith is an 18 year old adult when she shows up. She has no dependents other than herself. No reason she can't get a job and support herself like Buffy did in Anne. She had a superiority complex and thought the world owed her and resented that Buffy was top dog. I mean, that really is her arc.
I do blame Joss a little bit because of the way he decided to suddenly downplay her actions in AtS and make Buffy and Wes the bad guys.
I know it's unpopular but her arc just doesn't work for me at all. It's bad guy -> martyr -> victim. And that's how she sees herself as we saw in her dreams of Buffy being the big bad terminator.
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