I really don't get her for the first half of the season and her importance seems to be to act as a wedge between Wes and Gunn. And Lilah... I know Illyria gets much flack, but S4 is really all about relegating women to being sources of angst for the guys. Across the board, barring Gwen and Faith
I would say that this was an ongoing issue for Angel. I mean, Cordelia, Darla, Lilah, and Fred all get strong characterization at various times, but in the end every one of them died in order to further a male character's story. Angel might actually be the manpain-iest show of all time (except that Supernatural also exists, so never mind.)
which jumps from great to bad, usually when Connor is on screen.
This is how I feel about most S4 episodes. Well, not that most of them are great, but many of them are better if the Connor scenes are skipped.
I don't have a problem with Skip's retcon in terms of plot. I just wish that it didn't feel so sloppily thrown together.
Also Home is a fantastic finale. I've come to like S5 a lot, but if the
( ... )
Angel might actually be the manpain-iest show of all time (except that Supernatural also exists, so never mind.)
It really, really is. I think the only one who survives is Dru. I guess somewhere along the line I forgot that it wasn't just the deaths, but even before their deaths they were there for angst-creation a lot. I watched S4 and I really don't get what exactly it was Lilah was so into Wes for?
Well, not that most of them are great, but many of them are better if the Connor scenes are skipped.
It's true. It's true. With the exception of the fight in Home, he's a scene killer.
Co-sign. I do like S5, and I like the actual finale, but Home is a high point of the series.
It feels like it was the end and S5 is like a long TV movie sequel set later. Theme-wise, it's completely different than 1-4.
These days I'm a lot more cynical about my feelings on Ats, but I have been thinking recently that it would be worth re-watching seasons 3-5. Bts is by far my favourite of the two shows, but there are times when I feel like I've said pretty much all there is to say about Bts lol, while it might be interesting to see what I think of some of those Ats episodes all these years years later. For all that fans talk about how badly Bts has aged, I feel like Ats will have dated the worst of the two shows for me, just because it is so obsessed with man pain and I'm not sure that I'll have the patience for it these days! Especially when Buffy's pain was often dismissed as her needing to step up/get over herself, while anything with Angel and Wesley was always treated as being of the utmost gravitas
Also possibly unpopular? I really didn't care for Bat!Wes. At all. The whole thing just screamed of writer fantasy where the geeky guy turns super badassI always feel like I should have been drawn in by Wesley's arc on paper, but the way they
( ... )
Especially when Buffy's pain was often dismissed as her needing to step up/get over herself, while anything with Angel and Wesley was always treated as being of the utmost gravitas
Oh, yeah. That's one of the more grating things about Buffy is that all trauma should be just gotten over because there are bigger fish to fry (like Willow having a boyfriend).
I fail to see how Buffy aged badly. Maybe S1. Mostly, I see people talk about the dialogue when they say that, but the "Buffyspeak" was toned down a lot in 4-7, which makes sense and let's not pretend Angel didn't use it too. That accompanied with "more mature". Things people can say but never have to actually supply evidence. Even the supposed shades of gray the show mentions, even though every time the characters compromise it leads to disaster.
season 2 and onwards Gunn and Wesley were able to fight demons as just regular humans, Always bugged me
( ... )
Right! In the beginning of Bts it was presented as quite a challenge for the slayer herself to defeat even one vampire when she was fighting Luke, yet suddenly regular humans are able to take on a vampire with supernatural strength and come out on top? I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
And yeah, I think part of why I find it hard to like Wesley was because it was so clear that he saw himself as the noble and tragically wronged man. He was really milking it and wallowing in self-pity in late season 3, never mind what he *should* have been dwelling on, Angel's innocent baby being in a hell dimension because of Wesley
I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
I don't think Buffy did until Wood. Even in S6 it's shown that even the whole gang of Giles, Willow, Tara, Xander had trouble and they had Spike with them.
That's f'king better. :| I wasn't on much for like, a month, then there's been no whale ever since. Forgot I had this - I kept considering emailing scollywog or the other one I've got but I didn't know which email you used either.
Comments 15
I would say that this was an ongoing issue for Angel. I mean, Cordelia, Darla, Lilah, and Fred all get strong characterization at various times, but in the end every one of them died in order to further a male character's story. Angel might actually be the manpain-iest show of all time (except that Supernatural also exists, so never mind.)
which jumps from great to bad, usually when Connor is on screen.
This is how I feel about most S4 episodes. Well, not that most of them are great, but many of them are better if the Connor scenes are skipped.
I don't have a problem with Skip's retcon in terms of plot. I just wish that it didn't feel so sloppily thrown together.
Also Home is a fantastic finale. I've come to like S5 a lot, but if the ( ... )
Reply
Angel might actually be the manpain-iest show of all time (except that Supernatural also exists, so never mind.)
It really, really is. I think the only one who survives is Dru. I guess somewhere along the line I forgot that it wasn't just the deaths, but even before their deaths they were there for angst-creation a lot. I watched S4 and I really don't get what exactly it was Lilah was so into Wes for?
Well, not that most of them are great, but many of them are better if the Connor scenes are skipped.
It's true. It's true. With the exception of the fight in Home, he's a scene killer.
Co-sign. I do like S5, and I like the actual finale, but Home is a high point of the series.
It feels like it was the end and S5 is like a long TV movie sequel set later. Theme-wise, it's completely different than 1-4.
Reply
Also possibly unpopular? I really didn't care for Bat!Wes. At all. The whole thing just screamed of writer fantasy where the geeky guy turns super badassI always feel like I should have been drawn in by Wesley's arc on paper, but the way they ( ... )
Reply
Especially when Buffy's pain was often dismissed as her needing to step up/get over herself, while anything with Angel and Wesley was always treated as being of the utmost gravitas
Oh, yeah. That's one of the more grating things about Buffy is that all trauma should be just gotten over because there are bigger fish to fry (like Willow having a boyfriend).
I fail to see how Buffy aged badly. Maybe S1. Mostly, I see people talk about the dialogue when they say that, but the "Buffyspeak" was toned down a lot in 4-7, which makes sense and let's not pretend Angel didn't use it too. That accompanied with "more mature". Things people can say but never have to actually supply evidence. Even the supposed shades of gray the show mentions, even though every time the characters compromise it leads to disaster.
season 2 and onwards Gunn and Wesley were able to fight demons as just regular humans, Always bugged me ( ... )
Reply
Right! In the beginning of Bts it was presented as quite a challenge for the slayer herself to defeat even one vampire when she was fighting Luke, yet suddenly regular humans are able to take on a vampire with supernatural strength and come out on top? I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
And yeah, I think part of why I find it hard to like Wesley was because it was so clear that he saw himself as the noble and tragically wronged man. He was really milking it and wallowing in self-pity in late season 3, never mind what he *should* have been dwelling on, Angel's innocent baby being in a hell dimension because of Wesley
Reply
I suppose that both shows did always play a bit fast and loose with continuity in that respect though :P
I don't think Buffy did until Wood. Even in S6 it's shown that even the whole gang of Giles, Willow, Tara, Xander had trouble and they had Spike with them.
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:O :O :O :O :O :O
Every time I tried to see if you were on AIM, you either weren't there or it wouldn't let me on.
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