So 20 Years...

[infinitewhale]

It's March and this month celebrates the 20th anniversary of BTVS's premiere. To commemorate, I'm sure a bunch of memes will float around about favorite this and that. SyFy and Screenrant have posted some lists. All things that have been said before. Top 5 and Low 5 are usually always a mashup of the same 10 episodes for each. All in good fun, of

Comments

[shapinglight]

Have to admit, CWDP has never been one of my favourites. It starts off with that annoying woman singing that drippy song and goes from bad to worse, IMO. And I could never understand how Holden Webster became such a fan favourite.

Ironically, though, I now think it's rather better than I thought it was then - even though I know that so much of it (the Dawn stuff in particular) ends up being a pointless waste of time

[infinitewhale]

It's still a decent ep. My old opinion of it was probably rating it too high.

I loved the intro.

[shapinglight]

I loved the intro.

Sorry. :(

I just found Joss's obsession with tiny, skinny breathy voiced girl singers rather irritating when I last re-watched the show from the beginning.

I think it's a shame the Dawn stuff is ultimately meaningless because it's actually very well done, IMO.

[infinitewhale]

I guess I can't really argue on the singer now that you point it out. It's not the song specifically but Marck's framing and the atmosphere created. Buffy's "Here we go" is a perfect ending to a teaser. Too bad it fails after that. Much of really only works if you look at it from a everything is my fault perspective. That works, but again, I'm not 100% that's what they were intending.

Like I said, though, Joss says one thing, Jane another. True of S6 as well.

[feliciacraft]

To me the power of CWDP largely hinges on the mystery of what the heck is going on. Once the mystery is solved, it's just not that interesting anymore.

I tend to view Season 7 more favorably, or at least more forgivingly than most people, because I think to find out mid-season that the star of the show is departing is just a terrible situation for any writer. Series finales don't work well without foreplanning.

Anyway, the show must've done something right, because here we are, 20 years later, and still talking about it!

[infinitewhale]

I think the plot elements of it hold up pretty well, excluding Dawn/Joyce.

because I think to find out mid-season that the star of the show is departing is just a terrible situation for any writer

I'm sure it would be, but that's not what happened. They all knew SMG wasn't likely to return and planned for it from the start. The only question was how it would continue, whether it be the Slayer School stuff or all of this.

[frelling_tralk]

I feel similarly about season 7, ten years ago I was very defensive of it not being as bad as people say, but these days it really does feel like a pretty shaky way of ending things. It felt like they got off to a very strong start, and they excelled at setting up future conflicts in episodes like CWDP, but then like you say, a lot of it ended up pretty much amounting to nothing. Aren't there rumours that the writers room didn't have anyone left in charge by the middle of the season, because I feel like that really shows? It seemed like the writers were all throwing different ideas in there, but it never added up to anything coherent, and then they started to realise that The First wasn't working out as a villain when it couldn't physically threaten the characters, hence the last-minute addition of Caleb

I think that honestly they were so concerned about finding different ways to set up a spin-off (would it be Dawn and her new friends, would it be the slayer school with Willow, or maybe let's test Faith and Spike's chemistry for

[infinitewhale]

I feel like S7 could have been really, really great with some minor changes. I still think Lessons through Potential hold up pretty well. Then the pacing gets uneven. The middle isn't too bad at all, but after the first act being so peddle to the metal, it comes off as slower than it really is. They really missed the boat not having First!Buffy mindfucking the Scoobies. Those scenes could have been gold and would have sured up The Scene. You know the one

[frelling_tralk]

Yeah it felt like they really missed the opportunity for The First to stir up some psychological warfare among the characters, instead they basically brought in Caleb as an acknowledgement that they were struggling with writing The First, and didn't know how to end things without the usual physically tough opponent to kick Buffy's ass. They did set it all up really well in Lessons-Potential I agree, the closing of Lessons was a fabulous touch of nostalgia, but then they never bothered using any of those characters again. Well aside from The Mayor in Touched, and that was apparently a last-minute decision after the actor thought to let them know that he was available and in L.A, but it certainly doesn't sound like they had any kind of plan and were reaching out to the actors. And they could have had another fabulous scene like that with all of the past Big Bads to close things in Chosen

[infinitewhale]

Well, they used Warren and Dru again. And First!Buffy. I think the original plan was to have Spike's trigger song be something involving Dru. In the original script, it's a "I'll Be Seeing You" which didn't come out until the late 30s, I think. They had the Turak-Han, so it's not like they needed Caleb to have an enemy. I don't know, maybe they just really wanted to give Nathan work.

It's really the message of S6 that put me off. The eps themselves are OK, but like OaFA with all the "you were all so selfishly doing things like...going to work, school and slaying you ignored this 16yo who has her own friends!" I'm like, no! But yeah, Willow's whole deal is trash to me, especially Dark Willow.