(Untitled)

[interamnia]

Quote from today's Guardian, on the back of Paris and London's anti-Chinese demonstrations:

"May the Olympic flame never expire." Adolf Hitler

(The procession of the torch was introduced during the Berlin Olympics of '36.)

Comments

[pompe]

The Nazis sure knew symbology. I mean, look at Riefenstahl's Olympic movie.

[interamnia]

Certainly - but it makes me wonder:

1/ Is there a Darwinian basis for symbology, or can you instil it in a culture?
2/ Why did this symbology work so well on the population of Germany (and Russia) in the 20's and 30's, when it didn't work in France or the UK (Mosley's Blackshirts seen as an unpleasant joke), and didn't really "set" in Italian fascism? Is it an essential part of Totalitarianism?
3/ Are we so embedded in Capitalism that we can't see the symbology that seeps into us, or are we simply more sceptical and less likely to buy whatever the equivalents of flaming torches, uniformed parades, flags and bunting are?

[pompe]

I think symbols are bit wired. Not the exact symbols - although it makes for a cool plot hook for that SF epic - but out ability to connect to them. Patterns.

When it comes to 2) I'll make the assumption it didn't work because Mosley and Mussolini were losers at the propaganda game. Riefenstahl and at least some of the Soviets were competent at what they did, unpleasant as we might find it.

3) Today's symbology is more subdued but ever-present. Look at Billig's "Banal Nationalism" as an example.

[interamnia]

Thanks for the Billig heads-up - I've not heard of him or his ideas before. But I find myself agreeing to all that I can read in online sites covering his thesis. I shall find his book.

My weirdest experience of Nationalism was easily The Death of Diana. The country I thought I knew went nuts - perhaps led by a small percentage of the populace, but enough to tip life into "crazy" for a few weeks. I felt like I didn't know the place. Stranger in a strange land, for sure.

It certainly gave me an idea of how, for example, post WW1 Germany could creep towards Nazism, until it reached a tipping point from which you either bought into the große Lüge, fled or died. I can't condone what the people allowed to happen in Germany, but I do think it's one of history's most valuable lessons that we must not ignore.

And now the Euro - presumably Billig would see this as part of the "mission creep" to a federal superstate? Excellent! :-)

[poeticalpanther]

Hello - noticed you'd added me, but I'm unsure where I know you from (if I do)? I'm being a bit cagey about adding people these days, been burnt once or twice. Do we know anyone in common?