Ugly Betty: It ain't so superior
Oops, this is in response to someone else's post. It was too long to leave as a comment so I'm posting it here. I'm so not used to actually posting my own journals that I forget others can read it and would appreciate not having a 14000 character post so I'll put it under the cut and you can move along if you wish.
So I'm here. Thanks for the invite. :) I'm coming at this from the perspective of a "Detty" fan. (I hate meshed names too but they actually date back further than Brangelina. I started seeing it in fandoms around the late 90s as shippers moved away from the ampersand to the mash up.) The ampersand is hard but I am going to try to keep to my preferred D&B or D/B. Or DB if I'm lazy.
I'm sure you'll follow along nicely. And I apologize if this gets long, I tend to go on for a loooong time when a post interests me and I feel that I'll be read and understood even if I'm not agreed with. (From what I've seen of you on FF, I think that's a safe bet here.)
But like I said, I come at this from the perspective of a DB fan AND as a fan of the original. Frankly, it's probably the perception of the original that inspired me to post more than anything else. Because of that, I don't expect anything to change your mind or lessen your anger but it might explain some of mine...and I why I respond to this scream:
"Are you happy noooooow??? You've broken Silvio!"
With a HELL YES! I hope he's broken, tortured and frustrated if he had to write a DB ending.
If that makes me a crazy shipper than so be it. ;)
Since we don't know what is going to happen next week, I am going to refrain from any sort of victory dance. The thing is, I felt he kicked DB shippers in the gut in Season 2 when he came out and said they were like bro and sis and they were never going to happen. That is one of the biggest pet peeves regarding showrunners that I have as a fan. Why basically dismiss something that attracts fans? Why make them feel like idiots for seeing something shippable between two characters whne you're the one who writes stuff like "You're better than any model, Betty"? More importantly, why take away some of the fun of watching a series? A lot of the fun people have with shows these days is speculating about what could possibly happen in the future. Basically saying "don't bother" is taking away part of the fun of TV viewing these days now that we have online communities.
You and I both watch Community. We prefer different ships but so far I think there has been a nice co-existance between all the fans. (BTW, if you read fic, I have a good 'choose your own ship' rec for you...I don't read much but I loved this.) I absolutely love how Dan Harmon treats his shipper fanbases. He's surprised by some of the unexpected fandoms like Jeff/Annie or Troy/Abed or Troy/Britta(I don't include Jeff/Britta because I think that was part of his vision from the beginning so any fans for them probably don't surprise him). Instead of going "eww" or panic because people like something he never even considered, he throws out an episode like Romantic Expressionism. He makes no promises in that episode but he didn't poo poo any of the combos. He holds them up and says "go ahead and ship." We may eventually get all of those relationships (although I hope not, that'd be too much) or we may get none of them. But he's smart about it. And he's not running the risk of turning into a liar.
BTW, I should have pointed this out above but in no way do I think the D/B fans broke Silvio. If he changed his mind (although I am in no way counting on that, I absolutely would not put it past him to throw shippers a bone in this past ep and yank it away in the next.) If Silvio changed his mind, I think it has to do with other factors and not a small section of an online fanbase. Online fanbases don't have that power. They don't. In fact, until you mentioned these campaigns, I didn't even know they existed.
The problem with listening to a vast majority when you already have a clear vision of how a pair interacts would probably be the episode that aired a few hours ago.
"Clear vision" and Silvio Horta don't go together. He recently did an interview where he stated that he almost didn't take the job because he didn't know how to make a show out of an assistant at a fashion magazine.
The difference in our perspectives is that I don't see this show as being about Silvio's vision. It's Gaitan's vision. (The original creator.) Salma Hayek then worked to bring it to the US. She hired Horta to run it. So I tend to see him more of a hired hand than someone who came in with this clear cut vision and concept.
In other fandoms, I've pretty much said that I may ship a non-OTP couple but if the writers don't feel the same way then they shouldn't bother writing it lest it end up begin a colossal disaster like Barney/Robin became on How I Met Your Mother. (I wasn't even really a shipper of them but it was pretty clear that the writers didn't know how to write them...they completely changed their characters to make a couple that didn't work. But they didn't work because the writers weren't consistent.) They should have avoided that all together.
I digress.
Because I saw the original, I thought this show would be different. I thought it'd be safe to ship because I know how the story went in every other version and there'd be no reason to go after this franchise if they had no plans to follow the core of the show. Oh what a fool I was.
That's why I play a tiny tiny violin if Silvio was "broken." He broke a lot with his veering off of the original concept, lack of cohesion in stories, the progression of characters to be following by bizarre regression. I know why people quit this show and it goes way beyond ships.
I've recently learned that early on, the actors who play Betty (America Ferrera) and Daniel (Eric Mabius) wanted the Daniel/Betty dynamic to stay strictly friendly. And the creator himself, Silvio Horta, has alluded to them being brother and sister! There was no plans from the beginning to have the "homely assistant" fall for her "handsome boss"
This gets fuzzy. With America, I think she leans away from it but I don't recall hearing anything official. With Eric, he gives conflicting statements. There was this in Season 1:
But the most common statement he has issued is the "Moonlighting Curse." (Ugh--hate the whole notion of it but that's another rant for another time.) Basically, they go there and the show is over.
There actually was allegedly supposed to be a moment at the end of the pilot that they ended up nixing because they didn't think it fit. Even as a D&B fan, I think that was a smart decision because the timing would not have worked. So while there were probably no definite plans, given the pedigree of the show and the fact that something was allegedly written into the pilot, there probably weren't definite plans NOT to go there either.
And I don't think the whole thing came out of left field but I can see how people who read scenes differently would say that which is definitely the case when it comes to D/B and some of the scenes they've shared.
And really, with the crappy writing they saddled onto Henry's character early in the series, why should I expect anything different now?)
Ha. No. But since this is Henry, I want to sort of address him and fan reaction to him. I see D&B fans being criticized here for not liking Betty's other love interests. Well, that's fine. But as I mentioned on FF, that shipper crazy is in every group. I can totally respect that it hurts to read as a Henry fan. I know because as a Daniel Fan, it wasn't fun to read Benry (Oh goodness, I'm doing the mesh--eek) fans rake him over the coals. And I think much of the anti-Gio sentiment came from B/H fans which made sense because he was brought in to create a triangle with Betty. (Which was an absolutely annoying staple that Silvio returned to over and over and over again.) I didn't mind the anti-Gio stuff because I found him totally annoying and abrasive. I felt the same way in London Calling. But the point is, that kind of annoying stuff happens all the time whenever there is a collection of shippers.
About Henry: I enjoyed Henry in his initial episodes because I felt the show had a clear vision of who he was supposed to be and what part he would play in Betty's evolution as she adjusted to working in downtown NYC. It's why I liked Walter too because the show knew who Walter was supposed to be. He had an expiration date and wasn't used past it. My biggest fear when I heard that CG was going to appear in more episodes is that it was more about the actor than the character and they didn't really know what to do with him. That fear was realized with the introduction of sweet Charlie, then out-of-the-blue whore Charlie and then that whole baby drama stuff. Then Horta didn't seem able to stop saying 'goodbye' to the character. But I think I'm more annoyed with his presence than really hating on the character. The worst crime he committed is being unable to tell Charlie exactly where he stood in regards to their relationship. Betty had the same problem many times and it became annoying. Horta, with his crack writing, did the rest of the damage.
My problems with Henry were unrelated to Daniel. In fact the only boyfriend I evaluated in relevance to Daniel was Matt because he was rich, ended up being her boss and had a sex addiction. I couldn't not speculate on what those similarities meant. And I don't know that I agree with the "class" progression either. Accountant Henry ranks higher than pushy sandwich maker and douchebag musician.
Now, I've seen bits of Betty La Fea (and the Mexican adaptation, La Fea Mas Bella). It's outlandish, silly, and so very soapy that you'll feel like your drowning in bubbles. The Spanish version, and practically every other version from Greek to Indian to Chinese, has the heroine fall for her handsome jerk of a boss. If you can't already guess how the story ends, you haven't seen enough teen movies. Give the protagonist an "ugly" to "pretty" makeover and she's sure to get the rich hottie of her dreams! It's not cliche, farfetched, or insulting *at all*!
This is another reason I wanted to post. Sometimes I get the impression that people prescribe qualities to the original that didn't exist. Equally, I think they give this version qualities I don't think it has.
I will only speak to the original because that's the one I watched all the way through. The Mexican, Spanish...etc. versions are just like UB. They take their source material from the Colombian.
As I said on FF, the Colombian version IS different than what you'd normally expect from a telenovela. It was a criticism of class and what upper classes can get away with versus lower classes. It was also a statement on beauty but even those with beauty got stomped on by those with more money.
The protagonist is different as well. She's an unattractive female who is wicked smart with numbers which isn't really seen as a sexy trait to have. The protagonist is also, in effect, "the other woman" who helps her lover hide his financial transgressions from the board. Right there, that's breaking much of what telenovelas had been about prior to this one. In 99% of them, the woman that I'm describing is the antagonist.
Her makeover wasn't exactly huge either. They gave her better hair (like with UB) better glasses (again like UB) and better clothes (but not short skirts...a lot of pantsuits) but because the actress was so unbelievably gorgeous, it might have come off as a bigger makeover than it was. And the boss realized he was in love with Betty before any makeover began.
Betty was very different and because of that, there were people who expected an ending where she stayed single or didn't take back her boss. I saw the show differently. I thought it was a very funny telenovela but one with a current of darkness. Some injustices remained just that. I never thought it was trying to present the definition of a healthy relationship. And while it would have been a great feminist ending to have her made over and kick Armando out of her life for good, she was decidedly unhappy without him in her life. It was one of those romances that just wasn't pretty but I thought it made for compelling television.
I sort of bring up the background of that show to address a trend I see in holding the US version up as "too good" to end with the boss/assistant together because that's so "cliche." But I have to wonder, what is it exactly about having a plain jane get by on her pluck and perky smile and who wants to 'change the world' through her writing that isn't cliche? It's the plot of about 75% of the chick lit books out there.
That's the thing I liked about the original is that they made her a numbers genius and believably great at her job. The US version seems to rely on getting across the message of inner beauty rising to the top whereas the Colombian version wasn't really about that. She did have some inner beauty but she got by because of her brains. She did a lot of ugly things.
They haven't been as successful at making me believe that Betty is something special in her field with the vague references to "writing about stuff that matters" (like what?) in her blog or her erratic priorities when it comes to doing her job.
I also see the original source material denigrated for being a "soap opera" when Ugly Betty is somehow not. UB may be a dramedy but it pretty much used every single soap plot twist that ever existed to man that the original nicely stayed away from.
The American version IS different but I get frustrated reading that it's somehow "above" the original. In some ways it's unique, in others it's about as cliche and plot driven as it gets.
One place where the original is superior is in the vision. From episode 1 to the end, it knew where it was going. I don't think anyone can argue that this is the case with UB.
Now I've rambled quite a bit, as promised. And did you ever have an experience where you thought you'd write this great post that perfectly expressed your opinions only to write it and go "well this crap doesn't make sense?" Well that's how I feel about this. Maybe I feel that way because it's so late. I only hope that I haven't been too confusing or insulted you in any way. (Because that's not the goal.) I also hope the typos are kept minimal and the sentences make sense.
But I wanted to show that while I am happy I might get the ending I want, it doesn't take away from the numerous missteps by Horta, many that I didn't even cover in this comment.
So I'm here. Thanks for the invite. :) I'm coming at this from the perspective of a "Detty" fan. (I hate meshed names too but they actually date back further than Brangelina. I started seeing it in fandoms around the late 90s as shippers moved away from the ampersand to the mash up.) The ampersand is hard but I am going to try to keep to my preferred D&B or D/B. Or DB if I'm lazy.
I'm sure you'll follow along nicely. And I apologize if this gets long, I tend to go on for a loooong time when a post interests me and I feel that I'll be read and understood even if I'm not agreed with. (From what I've seen of you on FF, I think that's a safe bet here.)
But like I said, I come at this from the perspective of a DB fan AND as a fan of the original. Frankly, it's probably the perception of the original that inspired me to post more than anything else. Because of that, I don't expect anything to change your mind or lessen your anger but it might explain some of mine...and I why I respond to this scream:
"Are you happy noooooow??? You've broken Silvio!"
With a HELL YES! I hope he's broken, tortured and frustrated if he had to write a DB ending.
If that makes me a crazy shipper than so be it. ;)
Since we don't know what is going to happen next week, I am going to refrain from any sort of victory dance. The thing is, I felt he kicked DB shippers in the gut in Season 2 when he came out and said they were like bro and sis and they were never going to happen. That is one of the biggest pet peeves regarding showrunners that I have as a fan. Why basically dismiss something that attracts fans? Why make them feel like idiots for seeing something shippable between two characters whne you're the one who writes stuff like "You're better than any model, Betty"? More importantly, why take away some of the fun of watching a series? A lot of the fun people have with shows these days is speculating about what could possibly happen in the future. Basically saying "don't bother" is taking away part of the fun of TV viewing these days now that we have online communities.
You and I both watch Community. We prefer different ships but so far I think there has been a nice co-existance between all the fans. (BTW, if you read fic, I have a good 'choose your own ship' rec for you...I don't read much but I loved this.) I absolutely love how Dan Harmon treats his shipper fanbases. He's surprised by some of the unexpected fandoms like Jeff/Annie or Troy/Abed or Troy/Britta(I don't include Jeff/Britta because I think that was part of his vision from the beginning so any fans for them probably don't surprise him). Instead of going "eww" or panic because people like something he never even considered, he throws out an episode like Romantic Expressionism. He makes no promises in that episode but he didn't poo poo any of the combos. He holds them up and says "go ahead and ship." We may eventually get all of those relationships (although I hope not, that'd be too much) or we may get none of them. But he's smart about it. And he's not running the risk of turning into a liar.
BTW, I should have pointed this out above but in no way do I think the D/B fans broke Silvio. If he changed his mind (although I am in no way counting on that, I absolutely would not put it past him to throw shippers a bone in this past ep and yank it away in the next.) If Silvio changed his mind, I think it has to do with other factors and not a small section of an online fanbase. Online fanbases don't have that power. They don't. In fact, until you mentioned these campaigns, I didn't even know they existed.
The problem with listening to a vast majority when you already have a clear vision of how a pair interacts would probably be the episode that aired a few hours ago.
"Clear vision" and Silvio Horta don't go together. He recently did an interview where he stated that he almost didn't take the job because he didn't know how to make a show out of an assistant at a fashion magazine.
The difference in our perspectives is that I don't see this show as being about Silvio's vision. It's Gaitan's vision. (The original creator.) Salma Hayek then worked to bring it to the US. She hired Horta to run it. So I tend to see him more of a hired hand than someone who came in with this clear cut vision and concept.
In other fandoms, I've pretty much said that I may ship a non-OTP couple but if the writers don't feel the same way then they shouldn't bother writing it lest it end up begin a colossal disaster like Barney/Robin became on How I Met Your Mother. (I wasn't even really a shipper of them but it was pretty clear that the writers didn't know how to write them...they completely changed their characters to make a couple that didn't work. But they didn't work because the writers weren't consistent.) They should have avoided that all together.
I digress.
Because I saw the original, I thought this show would be different. I thought it'd be safe to ship because I know how the story went in every other version and there'd be no reason to go after this franchise if they had no plans to follow the core of the show. Oh what a fool I was.
That's why I play a tiny tiny violin if Silvio was "broken." He broke a lot with his veering off of the original concept, lack of cohesion in stories, the progression of characters to be following by bizarre regression. I know why people quit this show and it goes way beyond ships.
I've recently learned that early on, the actors who play Betty (America Ferrera) and Daniel (Eric Mabius) wanted the Daniel/Betty dynamic to stay strictly friendly. And the creator himself, Silvio Horta, has alluded to them being brother and sister! There was no plans from the beginning to have the "homely assistant" fall for her "handsome boss"
This gets fuzzy. With America, I think she leans away from it but I don't recall hearing anything official. With Eric, he gives conflicting statements. There was this in Season 1:
But the most common statement he has issued is the "Moonlighting Curse." (Ugh--hate the whole notion of it but that's another rant for another time.) Basically, they go there and the show is over.
There actually was allegedly supposed to be a moment at the end of the pilot that they ended up nixing because they didn't think it fit. Even as a D&B fan, I think that was a smart decision because the timing would not have worked. So while there were probably no definite plans, given the pedigree of the show and the fact that something was allegedly written into the pilot, there probably weren't definite plans NOT to go there either.
And I don't think the whole thing came out of left field but I can see how people who read scenes differently would say that which is definitely the case when it comes to D/B and some of the scenes they've shared.
And really, with the crappy writing they saddled onto Henry's character early in the series, why should I expect anything different now?)
Ha. No. But since this is Henry, I want to sort of address him and fan reaction to him. I see D&B fans being criticized here for not liking Betty's other love interests. Well, that's fine. But as I mentioned on FF, that shipper crazy is in every group. I can totally respect that it hurts to read as a Henry fan. I know because as a Daniel Fan, it wasn't fun to read Benry (Oh goodness, I'm doing the mesh--eek) fans rake him over the coals. And I think much of the anti-Gio sentiment came from B/H fans which made sense because he was brought in to create a triangle with Betty. (Which was an absolutely annoying staple that Silvio returned to over and over and over again.) I didn't mind the anti-Gio stuff because I found him totally annoying and abrasive. I felt the same way in London Calling. But the point is, that kind of annoying stuff happens all the time whenever there is a collection of shippers.
About Henry: I enjoyed Henry in his initial episodes because I felt the show had a clear vision of who he was supposed to be and what part he would play in Betty's evolution as she adjusted to working in downtown NYC. It's why I liked Walter too because the show knew who Walter was supposed to be. He had an expiration date and wasn't used past it. My biggest fear when I heard that CG was going to appear in more episodes is that it was more about the actor than the character and they didn't really know what to do with him. That fear was realized with the introduction of sweet Charlie, then out-of-the-blue whore Charlie and then that whole baby drama stuff. Then Horta didn't seem able to stop saying 'goodbye' to the character. But I think I'm more annoyed with his presence than really hating on the character. The worst crime he committed is being unable to tell Charlie exactly where he stood in regards to their relationship. Betty had the same problem many times and it became annoying. Horta, with his crack writing, did the rest of the damage.
My problems with Henry were unrelated to Daniel. In fact the only boyfriend I evaluated in relevance to Daniel was Matt because he was rich, ended up being her boss and had a sex addiction. I couldn't not speculate on what those similarities meant. And I don't know that I agree with the "class" progression either. Accountant Henry ranks higher than pushy sandwich maker and douchebag musician.
Now, I've seen bits of Betty La Fea (and the Mexican adaptation, La Fea Mas Bella). It's outlandish, silly, and so very soapy that you'll feel like your drowning in bubbles. The Spanish version, and practically every other version from Greek to Indian to Chinese, has the heroine fall for her handsome jerk of a boss. If you can't already guess how the story ends, you haven't seen enough teen movies. Give the protagonist an "ugly" to "pretty" makeover and she's sure to get the rich hottie of her dreams! It's not cliche, farfetched, or insulting *at all*!
This is another reason I wanted to post. Sometimes I get the impression that people prescribe qualities to the original that didn't exist. Equally, I think they give this version qualities I don't think it has.
I will only speak to the original because that's the one I watched all the way through. The Mexican, Spanish...etc. versions are just like UB. They take their source material from the Colombian.
As I said on FF, the Colombian version IS different than what you'd normally expect from a telenovela. It was a criticism of class and what upper classes can get away with versus lower classes. It was also a statement on beauty but even those with beauty got stomped on by those with more money.
The protagonist is different as well. She's an unattractive female who is wicked smart with numbers which isn't really seen as a sexy trait to have. The protagonist is also, in effect, "the other woman" who helps her lover hide his financial transgressions from the board. Right there, that's breaking much of what telenovelas had been about prior to this one. In 99% of them, the woman that I'm describing is the antagonist.
Her makeover wasn't exactly huge either. They gave her better hair (like with UB) better glasses (again like UB) and better clothes (but not short skirts...a lot of pantsuits) but because the actress was so unbelievably gorgeous, it might have come off as a bigger makeover than it was. And the boss realized he was in love with Betty before any makeover began.
Betty was very different and because of that, there were people who expected an ending where she stayed single or didn't take back her boss. I saw the show differently. I thought it was a very funny telenovela but one with a current of darkness. Some injustices remained just that. I never thought it was trying to present the definition of a healthy relationship. And while it would have been a great feminist ending to have her made over and kick Armando out of her life for good, she was decidedly unhappy without him in her life. It was one of those romances that just wasn't pretty but I thought it made for compelling television.
I sort of bring up the background of that show to address a trend I see in holding the US version up as "too good" to end with the boss/assistant together because that's so "cliche." But I have to wonder, what is it exactly about having a plain jane get by on her pluck and perky smile and who wants to 'change the world' through her writing that isn't cliche? It's the plot of about 75% of the chick lit books out there.
That's the thing I liked about the original is that they made her a numbers genius and believably great at her job. The US version seems to rely on getting across the message of inner beauty rising to the top whereas the Colombian version wasn't really about that. She did have some inner beauty but she got by because of her brains. She did a lot of ugly things.
They haven't been as successful at making me believe that Betty is something special in her field with the vague references to "writing about stuff that matters" (like what?) in her blog or her erratic priorities when it comes to doing her job.
I also see the original source material denigrated for being a "soap opera" when Ugly Betty is somehow not. UB may be a dramedy but it pretty much used every single soap plot twist that ever existed to man that the original nicely stayed away from.
The American version IS different but I get frustrated reading that it's somehow "above" the original. In some ways it's unique, in others it's about as cliche and plot driven as it gets.
One place where the original is superior is in the vision. From episode 1 to the end, it knew where it was going. I don't think anyone can argue that this is the case with UB.
Now I've rambled quite a bit, as promised. And did you ever have an experience where you thought you'd write this great post that perfectly expressed your opinions only to write it and go "well this crap doesn't make sense?" Well that's how I feel about this. Maybe I feel that way because it's so late. I only hope that I haven't been too confusing or insulted you in any way. (Because that's not the goal.) I also hope the typos are kept minimal and the sentences make sense.
But I wanted to show that while I am happy I might get the ending I want, it doesn't take away from the numerous missteps by Horta, many that I didn't even cover in this comment.