I've read these arguments before, and I agree with them, but where does it 'say' that only men can lead prayer? Is there an Ayah or a hadith somewhere?
I don't know actually, hopefully somebody here will help us?
I'm not sure I agree with it, this prose does omit many things, like financial independence (having one's own career or trade to fall back on) especially if one does have children. What if the father gets sick and dies or there are issues of domestic violence or something like that and the woman ends up alone with her children, if she has no education or no trade, then her children will suffer for her lack of being able to provide for them. The stuff I posted above ignores that reality, I think its a bit of an oversimplification, motherhood is so important but there is more than just staying at home ...
and in our hearts, I think a father that is kind and devoted to his children can be loved just as much as a mother can. Perhaps not have the same status to Allah, but to the children both can be looked up to?
I agree with you, I think what the author was trying to get to is that it's okay if you are living a comfortable enough life to choose to stay at home and there's no shame in it. A lot of the time you get women that look down on mothers that choose to stay home and raise their children, as if they're not worthy. I honestly cannot see myself like that in the future for various reasons, but I wouldn't think a woman who chose to stay at home and look after her kids is somehow less worthy than me. (Not saying you would haha
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The prohibition against women leading the prayer is due to a Hadith which forbids women from being in front of men during prayer lest it distract them from salaat
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You keep assuming that feminism is about making women into men, Duston.
Try looking at it from a different context which may have fueled Suhaib Webb's way of thinking - how women are positioned as beneath men, and Suhaib Webb may have applied that way of thinking to the prayer issue and chosen to react against it.
The problem with this way of thinking on her behalf is that she doesn't look at the context behind this action, which is of a different cultural/religious mindset to that of most Christian societies.
The issue with going by this stance isn't that of Feminism itself, but of individuals who assume that "women aren't leading prayers etc." means it implies they're inferior. Ask Native American feminists about their issues with how Native American culture is hijacked by such a mentality as well; where women's not entering war bonnets according to some tribes gets misread as inferiority when it's not.
It isn't an assumption; my perception is based on conversations with feminist activists and floods of articles. Modern Feminism in word and deed seems to desire absolute equality with men to the degree of women being treated the same as men.
There must be EQUITY between the sexes and that is what Islam provides. However there cannot and should not be EQUALITY because men and women are fundamentally UNequal by nature in many categories. Sometimes women are superior and sometimes men are superior. What I would hope to see in feminism is an empowerment of women based on these different strengths rather than attempts to enforce the falsehood of sameness. Unfortunately that has been the minority of the voice of modern feminism.
Reading your comments on Modern Feminism (however you wish to define it) as a whole though, I get the impression that you haven't actually looked *into* it and the various branches of thought and issues of discussion/contention within. Often, it seems that you fall into common misconceptions surrounding Feminism; and though these individuals you've spoken to may not have helped this, that you appear to insist on this view means that you lose out on another side to the topic. For instance, when I told you about "sex-positive feminism" and the debates that encircle it, you showed surprise at the time that it existed. I believe that if you had looked into feminist arguments and branches of thought (which do conflict with one another, as happens in any academic school of thought) you would have already known about it and taken it as a sign that not all of Modern Feminism is the same; neither is it an issue of "minority v majority voices" like you've said. That you've encountered those who seem to validate your view that Feminism wants to
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I'm not sure I agree with it, this prose does omit many things, like financial independence (having one's own career or trade to fall back on) especially if one does have children. What if the father gets sick and dies or there are issues of domestic violence or something like that and the woman ends up alone with her children, if she has no education or no trade, then her children will suffer for her lack of being able to provide for them.
The stuff I posted above ignores that reality, I think its a bit of an oversimplification, motherhood is so important but there is more than just staying at home ...
and in our hearts, I think a father that is kind and devoted to his children can be loved just as much as a mother can. Perhaps not have the same status to Allah, but to the children both can be looked up to?
IDK just some ruminations really!
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Try looking at it from a different context which may have fueled Suhaib Webb's way of thinking - how women are positioned as beneath men, and Suhaib Webb may have applied that way of thinking to the prayer issue and chosen to react against it.
The problem with this way of thinking on her behalf is that she doesn't look at the context behind this action, which is of a different cultural/religious mindset to that of most Christian societies.
The issue with going by this stance isn't that of Feminism itself, but of individuals who assume that "women aren't leading prayers etc." means it implies they're inferior. Ask Native American feminists about their issues with how Native American culture is hijacked by such a mentality as well; where women's not entering war bonnets according to some tribes gets misread as inferiority when it's not.
Reply
There must be EQUITY between the sexes and that is what Islam provides. However there cannot and should not be EQUALITY because men and women are fundamentally UNequal by nature in many categories.
Sometimes women are superior and sometimes men are superior. What I would hope to see in feminism is an empowerment of women based on these different strengths rather than attempts to enforce the falsehood of sameness. Unfortunately that has been the minority of the voice of modern feminism.
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