Topping and Bottoming in SPN fandom and who it's with.
What it says on the tin can.
This has eaten my brain over the pass couple of weeks for some reason to the point where I had to get some meta in on this. I don't care if no one is reading, here are my thoughts. I've lately been seeing a rise in top!Dean/top!Jensen lately and that started to get me more introspective into thinking why Jared/Sam have always been the predominant tops. I certainly understand and see the appeal but it still is quite staggering to see so much of the writing fandom agree. Usually from what I have seen Top!Jared/Sam seems to be the norm by like 60/70%. That is not to say that Top!Jensen/Dean doesn't have a following, they are quite vocal in prompts from what I have seen and even have a very strong community that holds around 200 stories. So there certainly are fans who love to read him topping. I guess I am just trying to find out what pushes the buttons so to speak?
Here are my thoughts:
Please forgive me for the complete shallowness that is the first point. I know that this is a stereotype and that not all of this applies to every couple or even every person but I feel it also stems to the large support Top!Jared/Sam has.
I totally see it as Sam/Jared predominantly topping Dean/Jensen not only because the dude physically is like a mountain and a half tall and is ridiculously well built in terms of muscle but he just looks the type. How could he not be? I understand that this is a stereotype but when it comes down to fics when it comes to one wrestling or fighting to top my mind instantly goes to Jared/Sam considering the physique and the fact that he has about half a foot on him and most likely is in a different weight class then Dean/Jensen. He probably out weighs him by about 20-30 pounds at least.
But more then just that I also think that a personal description has stuck with him. I believe that with all those new to fandom that I went through a sensitivity period of sorts and what I read during that sensitivity period stuck with me and formed norms that I can't easily shake. This I think feeds into why certain writers write certain things, I think as readers and fandom members we go through a sensitive period of gathering information and the material we take in shapes how we view these characters indefinitely until something strong enough happens to loosen them.
For myself I have read the fandom all of the fandom staples and most of them are in my delicious. The Days in Our Lives verse written by the incomparable titheniel and splashpink is probably my favorite fan fiction of all time and that mostly is top!Jared/Bottom!Jensen. Same with hemrage 's Desperate Times which was my first mpreg fic featuring Bottom!-Pregnant Jensen. It just got bigger and bigger to the point where I saw Top!Jared as canon as soon as I read fleshflutter 's beautifully written work Bulletproof which features hooker!Jensen. I recommend all of the above they are amazing works every single one of them. Once I read these fictions I was able to see all of the traits of Top!Jared/Sam and that became some kind of law for some reason when reading SPN fandom works. It even found my way into viewing Jensen and Jared interactions to substantiate my views on why Jared tops.
Jared always talks over Jensen during cons and is the more extroverted personality. Jen defers more to Jared during conversations as well. Jared is always the one who starts telling jokes, stories and generally interacts more with the fans usually during discussions while Jensen sits back and chimes in every once and awhile and adds on and augments Jared's stories. But when it comes to conversations Jared is usually the dominant party. Jensen has also admitted that it was Jared who brings him out of his shell constantly and that Jared has helped him with his shyness. Jared is also more willing to be physically affectionate and draws Jensen in and physically handles him more.
All of this was used to justify my thoughts on Top!Jared which I think holds up personally but then they are my thoughts so I am biased. What to me just screams dominant, toppy behavior for Jared where Jensen is very shy and reserved typically may be completely flipped on it's head for a top!Jensen fan. While I see those kind of personalities as pretty salient and so it's easy to see Jared being the more top/dominant partner of the two someone may see it completely different. But I think this is where the sensitivity periods come into play that wind up scoping our views in fandom. The writers of J2 seem to write whatever top in a way which makes sense to the readers and that is often the only way the reader may be able to see these two relationship dynamics.
In the J2 situations obviously it's fiction but I do think there are certain personality traits that J2 show and Jared seems to be the more vocal and dominating of the two so it's easier to mesh that emotional part of them into a sexual relationship. It just makes sense to me.
The Dean and Sam topping debate is even messier at times but may also be easier in a way to argue. It usually comes down to Dean acting more perceived 'masculine' so he deserves to top. Or it becomes about their symbollic relationship where Dean is emotionally more needy and crippled, where Sam tops. Now I admit I came into the fandom quite late (season 3) so when I started reading (2007-2008) apparently the fandom was in a major top!Sam mode and had been like that from s2-s5 and now that is starting to decline. I can see why that quotient rose as Sam was major angsty and quite dark and Dean was quite broken. So it makes sense that Sam would top more in fiction based on their roles at that point.
But there also is more evidence it feels like. Whenever Sam has sex scenes he is incredibly forceful and dominant. Whenever he has sex be it with Madison in season two or Robo!Sam in season 6 he is always manhandling the girl. Shoving her up against something or dominating the kissing and undressing her, forcing her down, etc. Sam is very dominant in the bedroom.
Dean in sex scenes isn't depicted as such. With Anna, Lisa and Cassie he is always very tender and soft. And even in his scene with Cassie it’s her pushing him down, her undressing him and her on top of him during the scene. Cassie is the aggressor. Dean is almost never seen to be very demanding in bed. So it would correlate that Sam would be the aggressor of the two of the sex scenes we have seen from them especially for Sam (Heart, Unforgiven and I Know What You Did Last Summer). I also think Dean is more needy and may crave the submissive role more because he seems so starved for love and affection (thanks John), with his rather fragile ego. Sam is often seen as the more independent one of the two.
It just slots together and makes sense to me. It's not so much the positions as much as it compliments the core characterization(s) and the realism of their relationship. If you can fit a certain personality and make it work then I am more then willing to read it. There are various dimensions to people so one perception isn't the only one.
Sam may not be as outwardly 'masculine' as Dean (which I think is more a defense mechanism to mask his vulnerability and his resulting loneliness personally) but at the core of his character Sam is more independent and autonomous and is the more willing of the two to go his own path without his brother. He does what he wants and paved his own way. He frequently challenged his authority figure and so on. His actions just seem to scream dominant. So in the Dean/Sam situation I find Dean to be so incredibly needy that he would bottom for Sam. I admit that this perception of Dean makes it very hard to see him as a top as he that image of care giving, supporting and mediating between Sam and John is often a maternal stereotype. It makes it very difficult to see Top!Dean if that is the view that is seen of him. Why does Bottom!Dean and Broken!Dean have more weight then Broken!Sam does?
However for me that completely changes when Sam is under age (for obvious reasons he doesn't have full capabilities of his sexual prowess/idenity he needs older Dean at this sensitive point in his age to guide him since he is inexperienced. I also think the hurt/comfort factor also automatically makes who ever is the injured party the bottom for another obvious reason.
Age and Injury seem to always be the swing factors in these sort of things for either Sam/Dean or Jensen/Jared.
My conclusion to this long diatribe:
In theory should be able to enjoy all kinds of J2 porn. Why can't we? For some it's fine and easy? But there are a lot of readers who need to have a certain top. But why? It's porn featuring our favorite actors/characters. So why does it deftly matter so much to us? It seems so much stronger then just a simple preference. A preference is like a tooth paste. I can't use Colgate I guess I will use Aquafresh. But no. Often times I see comments that express an allergy to a certain top. 'No bottom Jensen please', 'I don't read top Jensen', etc.
To some readers who tops and bottoms is incredibly important to them. But I am genuinely curious why. I admit that I have a very strong preference for Top!Jared/Sam but why is it difficult for me to enjoy a top!Jensen story?
This has eaten my brain over the pass couple of weeks for some reason to the point where I had to get some meta in on this. I don't care if no one is reading, here are my thoughts. I've lately been seeing a rise in top!Dean/top!Jensen lately and that started to get me more introspective into thinking why Jared/Sam have always been the predominant tops. I certainly understand and see the appeal but it still is quite staggering to see so much of the writing fandom agree. Usually from what I have seen Top!Jared/Sam seems to be the norm by like 60/70%. That is not to say that Top!Jensen/Dean doesn't have a following, they are quite vocal in prompts from what I have seen and even have a very strong community that holds around 200 stories. So there certainly are fans who love to read him topping. I guess I am just trying to find out what pushes the buttons so to speak?
Here are my thoughts:
Please forgive me for the complete shallowness that is the first point. I know that this is a stereotype and that not all of this applies to every couple or even every person but I feel it also stems to the large support Top!Jared/Sam has.
I totally see it as Sam/Jared predominantly topping Dean/Jensen not only because the dude physically is like a mountain and a half tall and is ridiculously well built in terms of muscle but he just looks the type. How could he not be? I understand that this is a stereotype but when it comes down to fics when it comes to one wrestling or fighting to top my mind instantly goes to Jared/Sam considering the physique and the fact that he has about half a foot on him and most likely is in a different weight class then Dean/Jensen. He probably out weighs him by about 20-30 pounds at least.
But more then just that I also think that a personal description has stuck with him. I believe that with all those new to fandom that I went through a sensitivity period of sorts and what I read during that sensitivity period stuck with me and formed norms that I can't easily shake. This I think feeds into why certain writers write certain things, I think as readers and fandom members we go through a sensitive period of gathering information and the material we take in shapes how we view these characters indefinitely until something strong enough happens to loosen them.
For myself I have read the fandom all of the fandom staples and most of them are in my delicious. The Days in Our Lives verse written by the incomparable titheniel and splashpink is probably my favorite fan fiction of all time and that mostly is top!Jared/Bottom!Jensen. Same with hemrage 's Desperate Times which was my first mpreg fic featuring Bottom!-Pregnant Jensen. It just got bigger and bigger to the point where I saw Top!Jared as canon as soon as I read fleshflutter 's beautifully written work Bulletproof which features hooker!Jensen. I recommend all of the above they are amazing works every single one of them. Once I read these fictions I was able to see all of the traits of Top!Jared/Sam and that became some kind of law for some reason when reading SPN fandom works. It even found my way into viewing Jensen and Jared interactions to substantiate my views on why Jared tops.
Jared always talks over Jensen during cons and is the more extroverted personality. Jen defers more to Jared during conversations as well. Jared is always the one who starts telling jokes, stories and generally interacts more with the fans usually during discussions while Jensen sits back and chimes in every once and awhile and adds on and augments Jared's stories. But when it comes to conversations Jared is usually the dominant party. Jensen has also admitted that it was Jared who brings him out of his shell constantly and that Jared has helped him with his shyness. Jared is also more willing to be physically affectionate and draws Jensen in and physically handles him more.
All of this was used to justify my thoughts on Top!Jared which I think holds up personally but then they are my thoughts so I am biased. What to me just screams dominant, toppy behavior for Jared where Jensen is very shy and reserved typically may be completely flipped on it's head for a top!Jensen fan. While I see those kind of personalities as pretty salient and so it's easy to see Jared being the more top/dominant partner of the two someone may see it completely different. But I think this is where the sensitivity periods come into play that wind up scoping our views in fandom. The writers of J2 seem to write whatever top in a way which makes sense to the readers and that is often the only way the reader may be able to see these two relationship dynamics.
In the J2 situations obviously it's fiction but I do think there are certain personality traits that J2 show and Jared seems to be the more vocal and dominating of the two so it's easier to mesh that emotional part of them into a sexual relationship. It just makes sense to me.
The Dean and Sam topping debate is even messier at times but may also be easier in a way to argue. It usually comes down to Dean acting more perceived 'masculine' so he deserves to top. Or it becomes about their symbollic relationship where Dean is emotionally more needy and crippled, where Sam tops. Now I admit I came into the fandom quite late (season 3) so when I started reading (2007-2008) apparently the fandom was in a major top!Sam mode and had been like that from s2-s5 and now that is starting to decline. I can see why that quotient rose as Sam was major angsty and quite dark and Dean was quite broken. So it makes sense that Sam would top more in fiction based on their roles at that point.
But there also is more evidence it feels like. Whenever Sam has sex scenes he is incredibly forceful and dominant. Whenever he has sex be it with Madison in season two or Robo!Sam in season 6 he is always manhandling the girl. Shoving her up against something or dominating the kissing and undressing her, forcing her down, etc. Sam is very dominant in the bedroom.
Dean in sex scenes isn't depicted as such. With Anna, Lisa and Cassie he is always very tender and soft. And even in his scene with Cassie it’s her pushing him down, her undressing him and her on top of him during the scene. Cassie is the aggressor. Dean is almost never seen to be very demanding in bed. So it would correlate that Sam would be the aggressor of the two of the sex scenes we have seen from them especially for Sam (Heart, Unforgiven and I Know What You Did Last Summer). I also think Dean is more needy and may crave the submissive role more because he seems so starved for love and affection (thanks John), with his rather fragile ego. Sam is often seen as the more independent one of the two.
It just slots together and makes sense to me. It's not so much the positions as much as it compliments the core characterization(s) and the realism of their relationship. If you can fit a certain personality and make it work then I am more then willing to read it. There are various dimensions to people so one perception isn't the only one.
Sam may not be as outwardly 'masculine' as Dean (which I think is more a defense mechanism to mask his vulnerability and his resulting loneliness personally) but at the core of his character Sam is more independent and autonomous and is the more willing of the two to go his own path without his brother. He does what he wants and paved his own way. He frequently challenged his authority figure and so on. His actions just seem to scream dominant. So in the Dean/Sam situation I find Dean to be so incredibly needy that he would bottom for Sam. I admit that this perception of Dean makes it very hard to see him as a top as he that image of care giving, supporting and mediating between Sam and John is often a maternal stereotype. It makes it very difficult to see Top!Dean if that is the view that is seen of him. Why does Bottom!Dean and Broken!Dean have more weight then Broken!Sam does?
However for me that completely changes when Sam is under age (for obvious reasons he doesn't have full capabilities of his sexual prowess/idenity he needs older Dean at this sensitive point in his age to guide him since he is inexperienced. I also think the hurt/comfort factor also automatically makes who ever is the injured party the bottom for another obvious reason.
Age and Injury seem to always be the swing factors in these sort of things for either Sam/Dean or Jensen/Jared.
My conclusion to this long diatribe:
In theory should be able to enjoy all kinds of J2 porn. Why can't we? For some it's fine and easy? But there are a lot of readers who need to have a certain top. But why? It's porn featuring our favorite actors/characters. So why does it deftly matter so much to us? It seems so much stronger then just a simple preference. A preference is like a tooth paste. I can't use Colgate I guess I will use Aquafresh. But no. Often times I see comments that express an allergy to a certain top. 'No bottom Jensen please', 'I don't read top Jensen', etc.
To some readers who tops and bottoms is incredibly important to them. But I am genuinely curious why. I admit that I have a very strong preference for Top!Jared/Sam but why is it difficult for me to enjoy a top!Jensen story?