Comments | ivo: The Local Pub and the Bazaar: the demise of the concept of "friend" in the online world.

ivo

The Local Pub and the Bazaar: the demise of the concept of "friend" in the online world.

Feb 05, 2008 11:08

Metaphors for online interaction are popular these days, and there's a reason for that. So let's explore some of the history, analogies and fallacies of online interaction.

The metaphor hype quite possibly all started when ESR wrote his landmark essay The Cathedral and the Bazaar. Which by the way, I never really grasped. He compares "building a ( Read more... )

Comments 19

eliset February 5 2008, 17:14:41 UTC

I differentiate between friends and acquaintances on LJ by how much they can read - eg, which friends groups they're in. I have an individual friends group for all of my best friends, as well as one for common groups of good friends.

equiraptor February 5 2008, 17:31:23 UTC

But... but... beer is icky!

:)

captspastic February 6 2008, 00:24:17 UTC

What in heavens name is WRONG with you?

equiraptor February 6 2008, 00:56:33 UTC

Rheumatoid Arthritis. Thanks for asking.

What's that got to do with icky beer, you ask? Methotrexate
"Alcohol significantly increases the risk for liver damage while taking methotrexate, so alcohol intake should be eliminated or minimized to no more than two drinks per month."

captspastic February 6 2008, 02:23:18 UTC

Whoa!

I was just kidding around. Nothing serious.

Just the way you had it there, made it appear as though you were singling beer by itself out, not alcohol. And since there was substantial amount of beer talk in the thread, was just having some fun.

Thread 5

goulo February 5 2008, 17:53:28 UTC

Although I think what you say makes sense overall (and I agree with what I take to be your core point, namely that online connections are no substitute for real life connections), I would pick a few nits (me being me):

I think the problem with LJ friends is not so much a "degree of friendship" thing as that LJ foolishly conflated two different concepts into one word:
1. People I like (whether or not I want to read their blog).
2. People whose blogs I want to read (whether or not I like them).

"When I'm at my local bar, I have beers with friends at a seperate table for just us, opening up about subjects I might not want to talk about in public."
I hate to break it to you, but when you're at your local bar, you are in public. :)

ivo February 5 2008, 18:55:52 UTC

I hate to break it to you, but when you're at your local bar, you are in public. :)

I was hoping someone would comment on that. Yes, it is a public place, yet you have an expectation of privacy when you sit on your own table. That's the beauty of these types of public places.

Similarly, I'm not advocating an IRC channel with NickServ authentication, channel keys, or moderation. I'm advocating that people go by widely-accepted rules of public behavior even while online.

_fool February 6 2008, 00:10:19 UTC

frankly, i love it when strangers bring themselves into my conversation and had a really exquisite date last night with a girl who sat at my table at a bar randomly, and proceeded to be very friendly. i was there to see the music (and so was she) but we talked a lot in the breaks and afterwards she asked for my phone number and here we are ( ... )

ghewgill February 5 2008, 21:07:57 UTC

Livejournal also conflates a third concept:
3. People who I allow to read my friends-only posts.

This is almost completely orthogonal to the first two and is the cause for a lot of confusion. I recall a few years ago there was an effort to change the terminology used in LJ to try to separate these concepts, but apparently it hasn't gone anywhere.

Thread 5

nerfman February 5 2008, 19:01:10 UTC

While I get the gist of what you're saying, your analogy of the online pub is fundamentally flawed. If what you want is a private conversation, you should be in a private place ( ... )

ivo February 5 2008, 19:27:46 UTC

See, I think my analogy is right on. First, there's a difference between a college-age shot bar where you want to pick up a one-night-stand, and a friendly neighborhood bar. And while new interactions might be the primary goal of a college-age shot bar, it's only secondary at your local pub ( ... )

To continue the analogy... nerfman February 7 2008, 21:35:04 UTC

I guess the proper way of handling the situation in the bar would be to run off and write vague things about them in the men's room?

Being passive aggressive doesn't get you very far in the respect department.

silona March 17 2008, 20:23:20 UTC

ah but what about in japan - where you are constantly bombarded by the presence of people and "public" is something that cannot be avoided.

What makes something a "private" space? absence of people? or the setting of expectations? I would say that when I go to a swanky restaurant I have the expectation that a random person isn't going to interrupt my date.

What if you are on the subway? how is that different than riding in a car with your friend that you want to talk to?

Conflict really is about differing expectations here and online and the lack of definitions being appropriately set.

Suggested browsing snaxxx February 5 2008, 19:47:10 UTC

I saw some interesting presentations on current online communities at the "Got Social Media" conference a couple weeks ago. I'd recommend checking out the following:

Kelsey Ruger aka themoleskin "Crucial Conversations In Social Media"
Stephen Anderson's "We're Connected, Now What? Turning Real Life Behaviors Into Social Features". And no, it's not necessarily a "DUH?!" presentation. :P

And then there's Pistachio's "Twitter is My Village" blog post, very enlightening.

Too bad some of the Twitterholics take a lot of the fun out of it!