The response, and consideration, this is provoking is more than an LJ comment will hold, so I'll go and write more about it at GPW. But first:
1. It's not quite the same, because people are clearly already there, but certain exploration Deeds in LOTRO can dish out great deals of experience if you strike out into the world a little ahead of your level. Time it right - and I've seen this happen - and you can level up by cresting the hill and looking down on Rivendell for the first time. It's pretty sweet.
2. FFG's Dawnforge campaign setting (a finalist in the WotC search back when) did some of what you're talking about.
3. I ran a short SF campaign long ago that was inspired by W.D. Barlowe's Expedition, about being the first visitors to a (seriously) alien world. It was fun for a little while, but Man Vs. Nature stories don't tend to make for good series
( ... )
1) I'll agree that LOTRO is probably the best of the MMOs for handling exploration. I particularly like the (I think) historian profession, the guy whose crafting occurs from going through ruins and scribbling notes about the artifacts he finds there. And those ruins themselves are beautifully built environments.
2) Never played Dawnforge.
3) I'll disagree that Man vs. Nature isn't a good story. I don't know that it'd sustain an entire super-long campaign, but for a one- to five-session story arc, it'd be tight. Did you see _Sunshine_? A great Man vs. Nature story... until the cancer zombie shows up and it's a bug hunt.
I liked Sunshine a great deal. I was a Jack London fan as a kid, and I encourage you to rent Mamet's The Edge to see Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin fight Alaska.
But notice all of the conflict built into the crew in Sunshine - and how even they weren't the first to go where they were going. And they were going to the fucking Sun!
I think the reason the Icarus I and the Burst-Blister Man are part of the story in Sunshine is because it's usually not enough to get to the place. Something has to happen when you get there.
That said, you're sure right that RPGs (most games, really) do have the rare advantage that what happens in the remote location doesn't have to involve humans the way a movie with actors usually does. It's a lot easier to wrangle a polar bear made out of a mini and some hit points than one on a sound-stage, after all.
Oh, and, yeah -- the Beavisland problem is an issue, which is why I think naming probably works better in a tabletop environment, or in a more controlled situation. Don't the Civilization games let you name stuff you discover? You can use culture-inflected names or create your own.
In an MMO context, I was more thinking of an RP-heavy guild "homemaking" in an abandoned tower, or having footraces in a relatively safe swath of open plain. Basically, do something with the environment that most people wouldn't consider, since most people are probably just passing through, running to their next challenge.
But the world is still known in the way you describe.
Most of what you describe is having the region mapped out, quantified, in supplements, just not having the people of the world be ones that know what is there.
I actually prefer the Exalted approach, which is almost the opposite: It is not stated for vast portions of the world what is there, at all. But once you get there, it's quite possible you'll find people living there; NPCs who "know". Then again, you can also have places that NPCs don't know, it's up to you (except for the God of Unknown Places ;)).
Sure, it's known by someone, but that solitary someone is okay. It's his job to give these little bursts of the unknown to the players, whether that's in the form of geography, critters, or what have you.
Funny that you mention Exalted because I'm rereading it now and it's what put the idea of exploration as its own reward in my mind.
I usually prefer to have the published work as a skeleton and build my own vision on top of it. When i used Rolemaster's Shadow World setting, there was a vast wealth of holes that i could fill.
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1. It's not quite the same, because people are clearly already there, but certain exploration Deeds in LOTRO can dish out great deals of experience if you strike out into the world a little ahead of your level. Time it right - and I've seen this happen - and you can level up by cresting the hill and looking down on Rivendell for the first time. It's pretty sweet.
2. FFG's Dawnforge campaign setting (a finalist in the WotC search back when) did some of what you're talking about.
3. I ran a short SF campaign long ago that was inspired by W.D. Barlowe's Expedition, about being the first visitors to a (seriously) alien world. It was fun for a little while, but Man Vs. Nature stories don't tend to make for good series ( ... )
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1) I'll agree that LOTRO is probably the best of the MMOs for handling exploration. I particularly like the (I think) historian profession, the guy whose crafting occurs from going through ruins and scribbling notes about the artifacts he finds there. And those ruins themselves are beautifully built environments.
2) Never played Dawnforge.
3) I'll disagree that Man vs. Nature isn't a good story. I don't know that it'd sustain an entire super-long campaign, but for a one- to five-session story arc, it'd be tight. Did you see _Sunshine_? A great Man vs. Nature story... until the cancer zombie shows up and it's a bug hunt.
Reply
But notice all of the conflict built into the crew in Sunshine - and how even they weren't the first to go where they were going. And they were going to the fucking Sun!
I think the reason the Icarus I and the Burst-Blister Man are part of the story in Sunshine is because it's usually not enough to get to the place. Something has to happen when you get there.
That said, you're sure right that RPGs (most games, really) do have the rare advantage that what happens in the remote location doesn't have to involve humans the way a movie with actors usually does. It's a lot easier to wrangle a polar bear made out of a mini and some hit points than one on a sound-stage, after all.
Reply
In an MMO context, I was more thinking of an RP-heavy guild "homemaking" in an abandoned tower, or having footraces in a relatively safe swath of open plain. Basically, do something with the environment that most people wouldn't consider, since most people are probably just passing through, running to their next challenge.
Reply
Most of what you describe is having the region mapped out, quantified, in supplements, just not having the people of the world be ones that know what is there.
I actually prefer the Exalted approach, which is almost the opposite: It is not stated for vast portions of the world what is there, at all. But once you get there, it's quite possible you'll find people living there; NPCs who "know".
Then again, you can also have places that NPCs don't know, it's up to you (except for the God of Unknown Places ;)).
Reply
Funny that you mention Exalted because I'm rereading it now and it's what put the idea of exploration as its own reward in my mind.
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