Bard skill effects on song buffs 0.0
Well im like a week late, but wow. Thats a lot of testing. Mad props go out to DavidLeeSephiroth and Vilurum for doing all this work.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=9;mid=1130285364286589975;num=14
"In an attempt to pin down how exactly our three skills (Singing, Wind, String) alter the potentcy of both buff and debuff songs, I've decided to compile a list of tests. This will be added to as time goes on and more tests are done in various circumstances.
1. Buffs
Each of the three skills, if risen to a certain point, will increase the potentcy of buff songs assuming the song is not already capped. For example, you won't get any more att+ from Minuet I by raising your skill, but you can get more from Minuet IV.
a) Wind
Quoted below is Vilurum's tests to prove Wind skill's effectiveness.
Vil wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
225 singing, Cornette +1 in all cases. Too lazy to haul out my singing gear. Number is attack+ from Minuet IV.
Wind Torque: +7
Wind Earring: +3
Minstrel's Coat: +3
Choral Cannions: +3
Bard's Cuffs: +3
225 wind (base): 59
228 wind (+3): 59
231 wind (+3, +3 = +6): 60
232 wind (+7): 60
234 wind (+3, +3, +3 = +9): 60
235 wind (+3, +7 = +10): 60
237 wind (+3, +3, +3, +3 = +12): 61
238 wind (+3, +3, +7 = +13): 61
241 wind (+3, +3, +3, +7 = +16): 61
244 wind (+3, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +19): 61
And, since I've been meaning to get around to meriting wind instrument anyway, and I have one merit point sitting around ...
227 wind (1 merit = +2): 59
230 wind (1 merit, +3 = +5): 60
233 wind (1 merit, +3, +3 = +8): 60
236 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3 = +11): 60
239 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3, +3 = +14): 61
240 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +7 = +15): 61
243 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +18): 61
246 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +21): 61
Suffice it to say, instrument skill is quite capable of improving buff quality, so I'll have to shoot you down on that, DavidLeeSephiroth. The rest of the statistics may be interesting in their own right. Combined, the lists read:
225: 59
226: ??? (presumed 59)
227: 59
228: 59
229: ???
230: 60
231: 60
232: 60
233: 60
234: 60
235: 60
236: 60
237: 61
238: 61
239: 61
240: 61
241: 61
242: ??? (presumed 61)
243: 61
244: 61
245: ??? (presumed 61)
246: 61
247+: ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
b) String
i. Minuet
Minuet offered some interesting results using Angel Lyre.
*Note: All String tests were done at 229 singing, 225 wind, and whatever string skill is listed. Luckily my singing skill isn't meritted enough to make a difference based on observing my Singing tests and Vil's Wind tests. Same format as Vil's test for ease of reading.
String Merit x2: +4
Bard's Slippers: +3
Choral Justaucorps: +3
String Earring: +3
String Torque: +7
229 string (2 merit = +4): 55
232 string (2 merit, +3 = +7): 55
235 string (2 merit, +3, +3 = +10): 56
236 string (2 merit, +7, = +11): 56
238 string (2 merit, +3, +3, +3 = +13): 56
242 string (2 merit, +3, +3, +7 = +17): 56
245 string (2 merit, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +20): 56
The interesting thing to note here is that with Wind skill and Cornette+1 it is possible to get +2att. more out of MinuetIV (59-61 attack). With string, however, there is no more than +1att increase up to 245 skill, which is 8 skill higher than where wind allows for the second boost.
ii. Minne
Minne tests were done with the gear listed above. The only change was that Harp+1 was used for each casting of MinneIV. The results are condensed to save room. The number on the right is the amount of def. added.
229-245 string : 53
This is odd since there was no increase to the potentcy of even the highest Minne. I can only assume this means that MinneIV is already capped at 75. The only other buffs that have a string instrument for them are Paeon, Hymnus, and Etude. These are, unfortunately, poor choices for testing skill effects. I'm sure I'll get bored and test PaeonV this week, but I'm not up for dying to test Hymnus (which, in my observation, Angel Lyre only seems to increase duration with not change in the amount of exp returned) and the 2nd tier Etudes aren't constant buffs and are therefore more subject to mistakes while recording data.
c) Singing
Singing test were done with MinuetIV using Cornette+1. Skills were 229 String, 225 Wind, and Singing as listed in each test.
Singing merits x2: +4
Bard's Roundlet: +5
Bard's Cuffs: +5
229 Singing (2 merit = +4): 59
234 Singing (2 merit, +5 = +9): 60
239 Singing (2 merit, +5, +5 = +14): 61
Ok, so I'm a bit light on the Singing+ gear, however Singing Earring and Chanter's Staff are both pretty expensive at the moment. Perhaps someone with these items already can help pin down exactly where the changes in attack happen. The important thing to note is that the att+ from these three samples matches the results of Vil's Wind skill test.
Initial Conclusions
Vilurum was astute enough to notice the correlation between additional attack from Minuet and the combined skill of Singing + String/Wind. Below is quoted from his post (which you can scroll down a few posts to see in it's entirety) which shows the hard number data to accompany his theory.
Vilurum wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So *now* my (wind + singing) list without involving Minuet+, looks like:
450: 54
451: ??? (presumed 54)
452: 54
453: 54
454: ???
455: 55
456: 55
457: 55
458: 55
459: 55
460: 55
461: 55
462: 56
463: 56
464: 56
465: 56
466: 56
467: ??? (presumed 56)
468: 56
469: 56
470: ??? (presumed 56)
471: 56
Your (string + singing) list, also without involving Minuet+ (can't get that on string, naturally) but keeping in mind your singing is 4 higher than mine, looks like:
458: 55
461: 55
464: 56
465: 56
467: 56
471: 56
474: 56
If we're going with the sum, it's matching my wind list in the places where both lists have data (most notably around the point where it switches from 55 to 56).
On to your singing tests, same logic (229 singing, 225 wind, Cornette +1 but I'll just subtract off the 5 it gives):
454: 54
459: 55
464: 56
Which again fits the list (not to mention clarifies where the 54-55 cutoff is, namely at 455 total skill). Fleshing it out with details (and just assuming the presumptions that if, say, 450 and 452 skill both give +54, so does 451), we're now looking at sum total skill:
450 (maybe lower) to 454: 54
455 to 461: 55
462 to 474 (maybe higher): 56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With Singing being factored into the equation regardless of the instrument being used, it would make sense from what we know now to use that as the main skill to merit, at least for buffs. Any merits put into String/Wind won't factor into the equation for buffs played with the opposing instrument, thereby limiting the combined skill when using a non-meritted instrument skill. It is important to note that while Singing is the clear winner for buff merits, it may not be the case for debuffs. This will only become known thru testing debuffs extensively to figure out how skills alter the resist rates and possibly potentcy (doubtful however) of debuff songs.
That's it for now. I'll continue to add both my observations and any observations that I receive to this in an attempt to help us all figure out how to be the best BRDs we can be. I also plan on looking into maximizing debuffs as well, however this is certainly much more difficult to test and will need a bit more thought and time.
Edited, Tue Oct 25 20:10:05 2005 by DavidLeeSephiroth
"
...
also gonna add that and this to teh guide
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=9;mid=1126468587122098586;num=35
and this
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47365&page=1
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=9;mid=1130285364286589975;num=14
"In an attempt to pin down how exactly our three skills (Singing, Wind, String) alter the potentcy of both buff and debuff songs, I've decided to compile a list of tests. This will be added to as time goes on and more tests are done in various circumstances.
1. Buffs
Each of the three skills, if risen to a certain point, will increase the potentcy of buff songs assuming the song is not already capped. For example, you won't get any more att+ from Minuet I by raising your skill, but you can get more from Minuet IV.
a) Wind
Quoted below is Vilurum's tests to prove Wind skill's effectiveness.
Vil wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
225 singing, Cornette +1 in all cases. Too lazy to haul out my singing gear. Number is attack+ from Minuet IV.
Wind Torque: +7
Wind Earring: +3
Minstrel's Coat: +3
Choral Cannions: +3
Bard's Cuffs: +3
225 wind (base): 59
228 wind (+3): 59
231 wind (+3, +3 = +6): 60
232 wind (+7): 60
234 wind (+3, +3, +3 = +9): 60
235 wind (+3, +7 = +10): 60
237 wind (+3, +3, +3, +3 = +12): 61
238 wind (+3, +3, +7 = +13): 61
241 wind (+3, +3, +3, +7 = +16): 61
244 wind (+3, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +19): 61
And, since I've been meaning to get around to meriting wind instrument anyway, and I have one merit point sitting around ...
227 wind (1 merit = +2): 59
230 wind (1 merit, +3 = +5): 60
233 wind (1 merit, +3, +3 = +8): 60
236 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3 = +11): 60
239 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3, +3 = +14): 61
240 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +7 = +15): 61
243 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +18): 61
246 wind (1 merit, +3, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +21): 61
Suffice it to say, instrument skill is quite capable of improving buff quality, so I'll have to shoot you down on that, DavidLeeSephiroth. The rest of the statistics may be interesting in their own right. Combined, the lists read:
225: 59
226: ??? (presumed 59)
227: 59
228: 59
229: ???
230: 60
231: 60
232: 60
233: 60
234: 60
235: 60
236: 60
237: 61
238: 61
239: 61
240: 61
241: 61
242: ??? (presumed 61)
243: 61
244: 61
245: ??? (presumed 61)
246: 61
247+: ???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
b) String
i. Minuet
Minuet offered some interesting results using Angel Lyre.
*Note: All String tests were done at 229 singing, 225 wind, and whatever string skill is listed. Luckily my singing skill isn't meritted enough to make a difference based on observing my Singing tests and Vil's Wind tests. Same format as Vil's test for ease of reading.
String Merit x2: +4
Bard's Slippers: +3
Choral Justaucorps: +3
String Earring: +3
String Torque: +7
229 string (2 merit = +4): 55
232 string (2 merit, +3 = +7): 55
235 string (2 merit, +3, +3 = +10): 56
236 string (2 merit, +7, = +11): 56
238 string (2 merit, +3, +3, +3 = +13): 56
242 string (2 merit, +3, +3, +7 = +17): 56
245 string (2 merit, +3, +3, +3, +7 = +20): 56
The interesting thing to note here is that with Wind skill and Cornette+1 it is possible to get +2att. more out of MinuetIV (59-61 attack). With string, however, there is no more than +1att increase up to 245 skill, which is 8 skill higher than where wind allows for the second boost.
ii. Minne
Minne tests were done with the gear listed above. The only change was that Harp+1 was used for each casting of MinneIV. The results are condensed to save room. The number on the right is the amount of def. added.
229-245 string : 53
This is odd since there was no increase to the potentcy of even the highest Minne. I can only assume this means that MinneIV is already capped at 75. The only other buffs that have a string instrument for them are Paeon, Hymnus, and Etude. These are, unfortunately, poor choices for testing skill effects. I'm sure I'll get bored and test PaeonV this week, but I'm not up for dying to test Hymnus (which, in my observation, Angel Lyre only seems to increase duration with not change in the amount of exp returned) and the 2nd tier Etudes aren't constant buffs and are therefore more subject to mistakes while recording data.
c) Singing
Singing test were done with MinuetIV using Cornette+1. Skills were 229 String, 225 Wind, and Singing as listed in each test.
Singing merits x2: +4
Bard's Roundlet: +5
Bard's Cuffs: +5
229 Singing (2 merit = +4): 59
234 Singing (2 merit, +5 = +9): 60
239 Singing (2 merit, +5, +5 = +14): 61
Ok, so I'm a bit light on the Singing+ gear, however Singing Earring and Chanter's Staff are both pretty expensive at the moment. Perhaps someone with these items already can help pin down exactly where the changes in attack happen. The important thing to note is that the att+ from these three samples matches the results of Vil's Wind skill test.
Initial Conclusions
Vilurum was astute enough to notice the correlation between additional attack from Minuet and the combined skill of Singing + String/Wind. Below is quoted from his post (which you can scroll down a few posts to see in it's entirety) which shows the hard number data to accompany his theory.
Vilurum wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So *now* my (wind + singing) list without involving Minuet+, looks like:
450: 54
451: ??? (presumed 54)
452: 54
453: 54
454: ???
455: 55
456: 55
457: 55
458: 55
459: 55
460: 55
461: 55
462: 56
463: 56
464: 56
465: 56
466: 56
467: ??? (presumed 56)
468: 56
469: 56
470: ??? (presumed 56)
471: 56
Your (string + singing) list, also without involving Minuet+ (can't get that on string, naturally) but keeping in mind your singing is 4 higher than mine, looks like:
458: 55
461: 55
464: 56
465: 56
467: 56
471: 56
474: 56
If we're going with the sum, it's matching my wind list in the places where both lists have data (most notably around the point where it switches from 55 to 56).
On to your singing tests, same logic (229 singing, 225 wind, Cornette +1 but I'll just subtract off the 5 it gives):
454: 54
459: 55
464: 56
Which again fits the list (not to mention clarifies where the 54-55 cutoff is, namely at 455 total skill). Fleshing it out with details (and just assuming the presumptions that if, say, 450 and 452 skill both give +54, so does 451), we're now looking at sum total skill:
450 (maybe lower) to 454: 54
455 to 461: 55
462 to 474 (maybe higher): 56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With Singing being factored into the equation regardless of the instrument being used, it would make sense from what we know now to use that as the main skill to merit, at least for buffs. Any merits put into String/Wind won't factor into the equation for buffs played with the opposing instrument, thereby limiting the combined skill when using a non-meritted instrument skill. It is important to note that while Singing is the clear winner for buff merits, it may not be the case for debuffs. This will only become known thru testing debuffs extensively to figure out how skills alter the resist rates and possibly potentcy (doubtful however) of debuff songs.
That's it for now. I'll continue to add both my observations and any observations that I receive to this in an attempt to help us all figure out how to be the best BRDs we can be. I also plan on looking into maximizing debuffs as well, however this is certainly much more difficult to test and will need a bit more thought and time.
Edited, Tue Oct 25 20:10:05 2005 by DavidLeeSephiroth
"
...
also gonna add that and this to teh guide
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=9;mid=1126468587122098586;num=35
and this
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47365&page=1