I have this issue at my office... I speak French with my coworker and I know that some people (including at least one of our two immediate neighbours) ressent it. We work together and we're both francophones so it would be quite awkward to speak English to each other all the time; English is our second language for both of us. And yes, we sometimes use the cover to say out loud things that I would use Messenger or email to discuss if I was speaking in English in order not to attract our coworkers' opprobrium. But I must say that we have ressorted to nicknames for many people in order that people don't recognize their names in our conversations in order not to feel like we're talking behind their backs, even if we're not saying anything wrong. The fact is, our speech can be obfuscating and people certainly expection some obfuscation
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But I must say that we have ressorted to nicknames for many people in order that people don't recognize their names in our conversations in order not to feel like we're talking behind their backs, even if we're not saying anything wrong.You mean not to *know* it, right? You *are* talking behind their backs, and in a very awkward manner. What you're doing is orders of magnitude worse than the situation with people working with the public, which you felt was kinda rude
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"talking behind someone's back" to me implies badmouthing them. If I'm just discussing operations, and I'm mentioning someone, I'm not talking behind their back, I just happen to be talking about what's happening, in a different language.
Most of what we talk about doesn't concern my immediate neighbours (they manage a different product) so going out of my way to speak English to include them is kinda stretching it.
I wouldn't expect them to speak English to each other if they share the same native language; I never spoke Japanese to other native English speakers in Japan unless the conversation included Japanese speakers who didn't speak English.
The fact that they're doing this at work rather than just out in public, on the other hand, is a bit rude, no argument there. Especially when combined with a lack of smiling/eye contact -- I hate being served by surly people, though I don't really expect them to fake happiness for minimum wage. Anyway, I think as long as the customers don't get that they're being bitched about, it's fine -- lets the service workers enjoy their jobs a little more, or at least hate their jobs a little less. But it's obviously distracting for someone like you who *can* understand their bitchiness.
I think the part that bothers me is the nasty comments about customers. I feel like I should say something to indicate that it's not cool to trash talk people in front of their faces, in a way that they can't understand. But then, François makes a good point about using MSN to talk behind peoples backs, which I think is a very prevalent behaviour. Is there any difference between using MSN instead of a secret language to obfuscate what you're saying? I guess not, in practice. The same thing is still happening, just in a different form.
So far I've never directly let on that I get the gist of their conversations, though occasionally I chuckle to myself or smile openly when they say something smile or chuckle-worthy. Maybe I'm the rude one for eavesdropping on their conversations and not minding my own business?
I think the solution to this is to find some piece of classical urdu poetry that talks about being mean to others, and to recite it to these women. :D
If only to increase your comfort, letting these women know that you understand what they say might make them tone it down a bit in front of you, if anything. Plus, you'll be all cute with your rudimentary Urdu and they'll start teaching you stuff. You will on all sides!
As for minding your own business, that's their problem, they should have some expectation that some brown people coming to their store speak Urdu. I've spoken French before expecting no one around me to understand me, and I had only myself to blame when it turned out the other way. :]
There's an interesting comment in your response, which is that "I don't really expect them to fake happiness for minimum wage". I've never really understood why being paid poorly is an excuse for being surly. Okay, everyone has their bad days and for sure I'm in a quite a nice position in terms of my job so I'm naturally happy; however, I've had crappy minimum wage jobs in the past and I was polite to the people around me not because of my wage, but because it was the right thing to do. We choose how to behave in our environment, not the other way around. I also think it's important to take a minimum amount of pride in your work, even if it is crappy work, because it's the right thing to do.
Sometimes it feels like we live in a society where no one cares about basic respectful ways of interacting with each other. I find that kind of sad.
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Most of what we talk about doesn't concern my immediate neighbours (they manage a different product) so going out of my way to speak English to include them is kinda stretching it.
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The fact that they're doing this at work rather than just out in public, on the other hand, is a bit rude, no argument there. Especially when combined with a lack of smiling/eye contact -- I hate being served by surly people, though I don't really expect them to fake happiness for minimum wage. Anyway, I think as long as the customers don't get that they're being bitched about, it's fine -- lets the service workers enjoy their jobs a little more, or at least hate their jobs a little less. But it's obviously distracting for someone like you who *can* understand their bitchiness.
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customers. I feel like I should say something to indicate that it's
not cool to trash talk people in front of their faces, in a way that
they can't understand. But then, François makes a good point about
using MSN to talk behind peoples backs, which I think is a very
prevalent behaviour. Is there any difference between using MSN
instead of a secret language to obfuscate what you're saying? I
guess not, in practice. The same thing is still happening, just in
a different form.
So far I've never directly let on that I get the gist of their
conversations, though occasionally I chuckle to myself or smile
openly when they say something smile or chuckle-worthy. Maybe I'm
the rude one for eavesdropping on their conversations and not
minding my own business?
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If only to increase your comfort, letting these women know that you understand what they say might make them tone it down a bit in front of you, if anything. Plus, you'll be all cute with your rudimentary Urdu and they'll start teaching you stuff. You will on all sides!
As for minding your own business, that's their problem, they should have some expectation that some brown people coming to their store speak Urdu. I've spoken French before expecting no one around me to understand me, and I had only myself to blame when it turned out the other way. :]
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don't really expect them to fake happiness for minimum wage". I've
never really understood why being paid poorly is an excuse for being
surly. Okay, everyone has their bad days and for sure I'm in a
quite a nice position in terms of my job so I'm naturally happy;
however, I've had crappy minimum wage jobs in the past and I was
polite to the people around me not because of my wage, but because
it was the right thing to do. We choose how to behave in our
environment, not the other way around. I also think it's important
to take a minimum amount of pride in your work, even if it is crappy
work, because it's the right thing to do.
Sometimes it feels like we live in a society where no one cares
about basic respectful ways of interacting with each other. I find
that kind of sad.
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If I had a secret language I would use it all the time. There's something about being private in public that is appealing.
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