own private Idaho

[jonathankaplan]

In the last century the Western world has invented numerous labor saving devices. Your home is probably filled with them. But aside from saving labor, these machines have other effects. One very notable effect is the way they allow the individual to withdraw into a more private life, less community needed. The refrigerator allows you to store food

Comments

Can I get a witness

[freelikebeer]

We are going to find out that a refrigerator and car (or even, internet) don't take the place of other people right there, really with you.

Amen, brother.

[howardtreesong]

I too think it likely that our standard of living will drop relative to the rest of the world, although I premise that on the relative similarity of political systems. For example, I do think that the secular, press-free West will always have a higher standard of living than an Islamic state living under shari'a law, or a Chavez-style regime.

What exactly are the "important" issues that you're referring to? A social security fix? The increasing power of the state? Not that I quarrel with your cynicism, by the way; but mine may be grounded somewhat differently.

Hope you're well, obv.

[jonathankaplan]

More and more, the power of what we think of as political systems are going to be overwhelmed by economic systems, at least until the world's overall median standard of living rises enough to catch up with the West, and consumerism has gotten a much stronger foothold everywhere else and had its effect. I agree with your first paragraph as far as it goes, but I would add that systems that have only been slightly affected by America's obvious affluence of individuals will become more 'infected' with that psychology. If not in this generation, then the next. Most of the world lives much more poorly than we do, and there is less and less reason for that, going forward. Thanks to our huge advances in communication, too many of the have-nots can see what (and how much) they don't have

Re: It's already been happening

[jonathankaplan]

Unfortunately, I don't think you are nuts

I'm not sold

[ext_1460]

How are your first two paragraphs related to your third? Personally, I _STRONGLY_ prefer a washing machine to community sharing of a stream or fountain. I _AM_ richer by having food delivered once a week and stored in my house than I would be if I had to go to market every day.

I am a producer, first and foremost. I pay close attention to how I leverage my hard work to improve as many lives as much as possible, and I've so far been successful at continually improving my efficiency and output. I'm a consumer, second and only to the extent that I can produce. I don't expect this to change in the next decade.

I don't care much about whether we call the gummint a republic or a democracy. It's annoyingly intrusive, but so far has interfered in my life only a small amount, and I don't expect this to change over the next decade. It's broken, but it's also a sideshow, irrelevant to the vast majority of people's choices in seeking affluence and individualism.

Re: I'm not sold

[jonathankaplan]

The first two paragraphs speak to the privatization of American lives. The third implies that our purposeful destruction of community life (as a side effect of our individualistic materialism) might come to haunt us, if a period is approaching where community has more value than we have allowed it to have.

My initial post was unclear because I've only implied a part of what I am really talking about, and wrote it poorly to boot. Of course we Americans would prefer a washing machine (or indoor plumbing) to having to collect at the watering hole. But each of those technological advancements has had effects beyond improving and privatizing our lives, we need to recognize that more fully, I think. They also diminished the value of community to each of us as individuals, gradually and forcefully eroding our sense of mutual responsibility and obligation.
The loss of those values could be about to bite the USA in the ass.

...I'm a consumer, second and only to the extent that I can produce....You are a producer first, but I'd suggest you

Re: I'm not sold

[ext_1460]

I still don't see the link. Actually, I see the reverse link. Privacy _IS_ one form of wealth, and the cause of other forms. The ability to trade with people who aren't part of one's local community is the greatest source of material benefits ever in the history of primates. The reduction in power of local busybodies is only a small part of it (it's a lot less likely than EVER before to starve or be killed due to community dislike

[howardtreesong]

I interpreted JK's point as being that our standard of living must fall vis-a-vis the rest of the world, and he is almost certainly right. That's not to say that it will fall relative to where it is now in objective terms, whatever those might be in this context.

[howardtreesong]

Our standard of living HAS TO drop relative to the rest of the world. HAS TO, and maybe by a great dealI thought this explicit portion of JK's post meant exactly what I suggested; you appear to have interpreted it differently. This interpretive difference matters, though -- I think you're attacking a case that Jonathan did not make or intend to