Comments | jourdanlane: How flawed is too flawed?

jourdanlane

How flawed is too flawed?

Sep 27, 2009 23:26

I woke up this morning thinking about flawed characters, but was expecting a house full of people so I never really managed to sort it all out. Now, people have left (thank GOD! Couldn't take much more toddler/baby fun... *shudders*), my house is clean again, and I'm heading off to bed shortly because tomorrow is a school day. But I just can't get ( Read more... )

characters, target, writing, over-thinking?, soul mates

Comments 21

emmyjag September 28 2009, 05:35:59 UTC

#1: as a reader, my patience wouldn't last long at all. but I like my romances at m/m/m, rather than m/m/whoever the flavor of the night happens to be

#2: but how does he get around that? as someone who handles narcotics, he'd be subject to random urinalysis. he might not get busted right away, but it would be inconceivable to me that a guy can have a long career of weed snatching and weed smoking and never once piss hot.

in general, I tend to find less favor with dealers than users. users are just killing themselves, which they have every right to do. dealers are killing other people. not so cool.

jourdanlane September 28 2009, 20:03:58 UTC

#1: *nods* I totally get that. We're currently having a moment where he's throwing a tantrum like a 4 year old brat and I'm not giving in. That boy is giving me a headache, to say the least ;-)

#2: Yeah, he's subject to them, but always seems to find a way around it. On one hand, there are those random UC deals where he's had to use for credibility -- and that's reported to his supervisor where it creates a paper trail so that if he does test dirty, there's a documented reason for it. On the other hand, he makes use of detox kits/chem. solutions when he has to... and I think he just prays they work.

It's not something he's done his entire career per se, but something that kind of developed after a bad case -- say a year or so ago.

emmyjag September 28 2009, 20:55:49 UTC

The thing with drug tests is that they're random. I handle narcotics and have to get them often. We're never notified in advance. The boss comes up and says "I need a sample now", follows you to the bathroom to watch you pee in a cup, and that's it. No way to take a cleanser or anything beforehand. You fill out a form after saying what prescription meds, etc you're on. Eventually, this guy WILL get caught, but I could suspend belief for a short period. A year, yes. Decades, no.

Also, drug tests are very specific. They list exactly what you're tested positive for. So if, for example, your UC cop did some cocaine with a cartel he was infiltrating, there'd still be no logical reason for him to also test positive for weed. And that's just for urine. Hair tests will tell you exactly how often a drug was taken, and over what period of time.

jourdanlane September 28 2009, 21:18:58 UTC

Oh, no... wouldn't be decades. A year, maybe a little longer.

*nods* That's how it was when I worked in the hosp. too. But most all agencies around here are now done w/outsourced labs. They say drug test ... you drive to the lab and pee in a cup. How smart is that? ;-)

Still working it all out, but I have regular contact with the head of Vice on the PD where he would work (if he was real, lol), so will hit him up for what he thinks, too.

Dude. Is Ryan. You can see him do this, yes?

miikarin September 28 2009, 06:30:46 UTC

Well, if you're asking if they're too flawed to be believable, I would say no ( ... )

jourdanlane September 28 2009, 20:22:43 UTC

Oh, I love reading flawed characters, too. It adds another dimension to their development, but it has to be played right and like you say, not something that's just tacked on as an afterthought to make them seem more than a 2D person ( ... )

cboy_junkie September 28 2009, 06:37:38 UTC

Re #1: I don't see it necessarily as a weakness in the character but more so an opportunity to create some great conflict within the character himself and between the character and his main partners and/or those he cares for and who care for him in return. I realize that many readers would likely want him to remain faithful to his partners, etc., and continue fighting his urges to say yes, but I see the potential for some great creativity in terms of character development and interaction which for me would make the story that much more interesting. Although there would be a need to balance the level of conflict with any potential HEA brewing in the story ( ... )

jourdanlane September 28 2009, 20:36:54 UTC

#1: *laughs* My poor guy is practically begging for the conflict to ease up a little ;-) He's had a rough go of it, being thrust into a world where sex is everything, but human values are somewhat attached to that. It's not only making his head hurt... but MINE!

#2: This character has had some bad shit happen to him throughout his life. So his demons are definitely there, lurking beneath the surface. From all of the LEO's I've known/spoken to, alcoholism runs pretty high. But no one wants to admit to any other instances of substance abuse. If it might cost me my job if the wrong people found out, i guess I wouldn't admit to it either.

Oh, I'm with you. I adore flawed, 3D characters...unless they seem to be tacked on as an after-thought and those? Yeah, I could really do without them :)

*grins* Worth more than two cents, I guarantee! Getting some other thoughts/opinions are helping me work this out in my head!

cboy_junkie September 29 2009, 05:00:53 UTC

#1: *laughs* My poor guy is practically begging for the conflict to ease up a little ;-) He's had a rough go of it, being thrust into a world where sex is everything, but human values are somewhat attached to that. It's not only making his head hurt... but MINE!

Well when put this way my head would hurt too!.....Poor him and you! LOL

Some questions for you - how long before the vamp/incubus side takes over completely, assuming that it ever will? Are his human values a memory, something he is still consciously aware of, or do they linger because physiologically he is still part human? Assuming you ascribe to the nature over nurture belief - as time goes by, post his change, does he become more and more vamp/incubus and less and less human in his essence? If this is the case will his conflict re: sex cease/subside at some point?

jourdanlane September 30 2009, 18:35:46 UTC

I've always felt it varied from person to person. Some are turned and are in tune with the vamp/incubus from the very beginning. Sex it great, sex it good, sex is... food.

And some? Well, they hang on to human values for as long as they can. Those? Are usually the ones who never really understood what it meant to be brought over before it happened.

I think as time goes on, they're either going to have to accept what they are and what they need -- or they're going to have a miserable existence. But yeah, I eventually, nature usually wins the battle.

2metaldog September 28 2009, 11:53:05 UTC

For the first one, ignoring/denying his sexual urges would seem really hard and possibly even cruel if he's an incubus. Unless you're creating some new canon/rules for incubus, they traditionally feed through sex. So he might not be getting enough from his main partners or he might like variety in his diet ( ... )

jourdanlane September 28 2009, 21:08:30 UTC

#1: Exactly! An incubus feeds off/from sex. I think one problem here is that my series has been marketed as romance when in fact, it's more urban fantasy. In UF, there's not necessarily the need to have that HEA, but more of the HFN ( ... )

2metaldog September 29 2009, 01:19:25 UTC

#1 It sounds like there are complications in his life and he's been trying to deal with them (maybe not so effectively). I may be a little weird in that while I really like a HEA, I can go with a HFN or even just a resolution to whatever was the problem that was driving the character/plot.

It likely won't win you the popular vote, but I'd go with what's going on with the character and not what you want him to do/be. It's been my experience that a story is usually better that way.

#2 Realizing that the war on drugs isn't one is believable given the way of the world today. I think it'd be a really good read as he struggles with al the things going on in his head.

I love it when characters finally speak up and let you in on everything going on with them. Now, if only they could do it on demand....

angelabenedetti September 28 2009, 19:54:36 UTC

I'm with 2metaldog on the incubus question. In fact, I object to the idea that a desire to have sex with a lot of people is even a flaw for an incubus. It's like saying the desire to eat food is a flaw in a human; sure, one can go overboard, but it's natural and normal and healthy to eat a wide variety, and trying to eat only, say, potatoes, is going to make one sick no matter what one's purpose or intentions.

If your incubus is physically capable of being monogamous, then I have to ask what about him makes him an incubus? I know it's a trend to domesticate various classic horror or fantasy beings which used to be considered only as monsters, but taking it too far negates the whole point of using the creature in the first place. I mean, there are humans in realspace who are psychologically incapable of being monogamous, to the point of being diagnosable with a definitive disorder. So if an incubus can be monogamous, then what exactly is an incubus and what's the point of having him in a story ( ... )

jourdanlane September 28 2009, 21:47:13 UTC

#1: *nods* I guess I've been thinking of it as a flaw because it's probably THE biggest complaint I get on the series and this character. I think many people try to take a non-human character and then instill human values into the equation. No matter how you work that... they're still not going to BE human and their actions/values aren't going to be of the human expectation either.

I wish this series had never been marketed as romance :-/

#2: *nods* Oh, she's completely right on that. The frequency of testing depends on the cases that they're working at the time -- so says my narcotics guy. We're now discussing theories, so we'll see what we come up with. I think the fact that he's not been doing it for years and is a point in his favor, LOL!

angelabenedetti September 28 2009, 21:58:06 UTC

One of the things I like about GLBT romance is that The Rules aren't nearly as ossified as they are over on the het side. Over there, readers have been talking to each other for so long, getting together in groups and discussing their likes and dislikes and deciding that anything they can get five people to agree on is a new "rule" of romance, that the field has become pretty darned cramped for the writer. I like that you can be really creative with GLBT romances and get hassled for it a lot less ( ... )