(Untitled)

[julad]

I'm no expert in stopping "flame wars", but I'm pretty sure calling for a ceasefire while POURING A FORTY GALLON DRUM OF FUEL ON THE FLAMES is not how it's done

Comments

[ms_maree]

I read this, this afternoon, the LJ you linked. And my heart just kept sinking as I read it. I have this massive embarrassment squick, I get embarrassed for other people easily, so much so that I physically flinch and this was just excruciating for me to read it.

And this probably makes me a bad person, but I do really feel sorry for her, sorry for the reaction she's going to get, because I know what reaction she is going to get, and I know she's asking for it, but I just hate to see someone in that situation. So I'm embarrassed for her, and I want to give her a hug, and then shake her and go 'whyyyyyyy!' she's so well meaning (I truly believe), I just can't hate her, or even dislike her, I just wish she could be a bit wiser.

Yeah?

[julad]

I'm quite a bit past feeling sorry for her. When I first was hearing about RaceFail (second hand as I was fully offline when it started) I assumed the people involved were well-intentioned and had some sympathy for them, and since then have assumed the same while not really paying attention. But really, that post made it crystal clear to me that if there are well meaning intentions in play here, there is also defensiveness, equivocation, martyrdom, failing to learn and failing to take responsibility.

Seriously, stop and imagine the post you would write if you did sincerely believe it would be for the best both sides to step back and calm down, or if you wanted to turn the discussion towards a productive and healing outcome. It would nothing like that post.

It doesn't make you a bad person to feel for a fellow human being, but at some point you have to feel less empathy for the person making a fool of herself and feel more empathy for the people she's belittling and marginalising with her foolishness.

[ms_maree]

Just to give you an idea, I sometimes feel sorry for Pauline Hansen too, when she says something stupid.

I know, I know.

[julad]

LOLOL! Okay, okay. *g*

[drlense]

Wow, she- WOW. The "I know it seemed like I took Them seriously, but really They were full of Shit, and I was just humoring Them" is NOT a good thing to announce to the world.

This whole thing stinks and it smells and it stinks.

[julad]

The more I read it the more astonished I am at how awful it is. I really need to catch up on the whole debate before I can consider it in any depth, but that post has been a hell of a wake up call.

[drlense]

I have been catching up on it over the last week or so- I stayed away at first because I always do- I'm not a particularly good meta person, but reading and catching up has been a very valuable experience for me, and I feel like I've learned something. Which sounds so trite- oh, the white girl learned something- that makes everyone's pain and anguish over the whole think okay. But- I can't deny learning something, even if that was "shut up and just listen

[julad]

No, you're good, spew away. *g* I keep starting to type things and and then losing my words. "Shut up and listen" is my religion right about now, and I don't think that means being mute, but I don't yet know know what I should say, either. I'm certainly learning from what I'm reading and I'm trying to ensure I learn well, as my way of ensuring some good comes out of it. There's a really, really valuable lesson for me in what Bear has done just here: she used her knowledge of her own privilege, ultimately, in a self-serving and duplicitous way, and that's what I'm currently dwelling on.

[lastrega]

I'm still confused how the person who DID WRONG gets to demand a ceasefire. Not even from a place of 'wow, I did a horrible thing and I get you're upset and I'm sorry for what I did and would you mind if we all took a break from this for a moment?' which is still, even as I write that, more than a little faily - but demanding that hostilities stop BECAUSE SHE SAYS SO. And she is...????

It's a good thing the internet's built to contain infinite amounts of fail, because...wow.

[julad]

I feel like I need DIAGRAMS OF THE FAIL to fully comprehend it. It's like, massively multidimensional quantum fail. I may, in fact, spend my weekend drawing diagrams in an attempt to fully comprehend it, but I fear it would take 3D modelling software to adequately render.

[lastrega]

Weapons-grade 3D modelling software, and who has that sort of computing power?

[farwing]

Um. If you were able to make these mythical DIAGRAMS OF FAIL that would be kind of amazing.

The kind of sucky thing is that I go to SciFi conventions, and have been going to them for...about half my life now. And I've seen some of these people on panels, and they had interesting things to say, so I'm pretty sure they are not *actually* stupid. And yet...they are so filled with stupidity it makes my head hurt.

[bkwyrm]

Oh dear GOD.
At this point, I'm forced into wondering if this whole thing isn't maybe some form of performance art. A study in Not Getting It, illustrated by Bear, Cramer, Shetterly, and others. Because otherwise, there's a whole bunch of pro SF writers who are THIS CLUELESS about interacting with other people.
I just....it makes me want to cry, honestly.

[julad]

I think the whole Harlan Ellison & Connie Willis incident lowered my expectations of the pro SF community enough that I'm not too disillusioned, but I am still blinking somewhat at the use of the "self destruct" button. It's kind of like a fight over who gets the literary Darwin awards or something... not something you even want to compete for, let alone win.

[bkwyrm]

Some small part of me is hoping that this is some kind of big experiment for a sociology class....
*sigh*
I've been employing "shut up and listen" as well. But this is just so OUTRAGEOUS - "I pretended that They had a point, because They were Other, and I pretended to listen to Them, but now they're being mean to my friends who are just Well-Meaning Assholes Online and therefore no one ever needs to take Them seriously."
ARGH.

[julad]

Five bucks says somebody ends up claiming it was only an experiment and they only said that to prove a point about how people would respond.

You're right that it's outrageous. It's like a boil just burst and all the pus came out. Under all the nice words, it really is that bad.

[birdsflying]

Christ on a Unicycle. Can we just submit her post as the definition of the word 'FAIL'? Because, wow, of the many epic fails seen so far, this one has taken the cake, biscuits and all of the goodie bags at the EPIC FAIL party.

[julad]

Do you think googlebombing would suffice?

[birdsflying]

It probably would. I'm certainly tempted to screencap and submit to the Fail Blog.

[zillah975]

I thought Google found a way to prevent googlebombing.

If they didn't, I'm in.