I think Tolkien (and his specifically Catholic Christian ideology) would say that the Valar's useless douchebaggery is built-in (by Iluvatar) to allow for free will on the parts of both Elves and Men.
Arda was (if I remember rightly - answering here off the top of my head) marred by Melkor well before the Elves awoke, so their fading might well be attributed to him.
In addition, I seem to recall that, from the very beginning at Cuiviénen, Elves were being abducted by Melkor's servants, and slowly transformed into Orcs (who might also have been immortal, but don't let me get started on them, as I have theories about them..). So it would make sense that, once contacted by That-Valar-Guy (sorry - forgotten which one it was), they'd be tempted by the offer of safety, eternal bliss etc.
The real problem for me is that Tolkien doesn't do politics (at least, not amongst the good-guys). I'm always happy to read (and write) fanfic involving political shenanigens in post-Ringwar Middle Earth (ahem - ... )
I think Tolkien (and his specifically Catholic Christian ideology) would say that the Valar's useless douchebaggery is built-in (by Iluvatar) to allow for free will on the parts of both Elves and Men.
Which would be fine with me, except a) they're happy to intervene to drown people and b) Sauron is a Maia. When the elves are having a spat with the dwarves I'm happy for them to put their hands up and say "Okay, you kids sort this one out for yourselves," but it's unacceptable in my view to let other gods run around terrorizing people who haven't got the powers to fight back. That's not a free will issue, that's just bad governance
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Actually as regards the drowning of Numenor, that was Iluvatar's doing. It's stated that when Ar-Pharazon set foot on the Blessed Realm the Valar laid down their authority and called upon the One, Who then did His stuff.
So it's an act of Pilate-type hand-washing on the Valar's part, rather than active destruction. They really are rather passive and withdrawn in the face of most crises, aren't they.
I think the free-will issue around Sauron relates to him primarily. It's like they give him enough rope, and hope he sees the error of his ways; but try to mitigate his damage elsewhere by sending in the Istari (like ...Whut
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Actually as regards the drowning of Numenor, that was Iluvatar's doing
True, but they bothered to go running to Teacher. Couldn't be arsed when Melkor or Sauron were running roughshod over Middle-earth, but God forbid they should have an unwelcome visitor!
It's especially absurd when you consider that Ulmo controls the frickin' ocean, and presumably could just have a big headwind come up against the Numenoreans until the fleet got bored and sailed home.
I think the free-will issue around Sauron relates to him primarily.Oh, I see what you mean now. Explains Saruman too, actually, because Varda knew that was going to go down like a lead balloon and sent him anyway
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Arda was (if I remember rightly - answering here off the top of my head) marred by Melkor well before the Elves awoke, so their fading might well be attributed to him.
In addition, I seem to recall that, from the very beginning at Cuiviénen, Elves were being abducted by Melkor's servants, and slowly transformed into Orcs (who might also have been immortal, but don't let me get started on them, as I have theories about them..). So it would make sense that, once contacted by That-Valar-Guy (sorry - forgotten which one it was), they'd be tempted by the offer of safety, eternal bliss etc.
The real problem for me is that Tolkien doesn't do politics (at least, not amongst the good-guys). I'm always happy to read (and write) fanfic involving political shenanigens in post-Ringwar Middle Earth (ahem - ... )
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Which would be fine with me, except a) they're happy to intervene to drown people and b) Sauron is a Maia. When the elves are having a spat with the dwarves I'm happy for them to put their hands up and say "Okay, you kids sort this one out for yourselves," but it's unacceptable in my view to let other gods run around terrorizing people who haven't got the powers to fight back. That's not a free will issue, that's just bad governance ( ... )
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So it's an act of Pilate-type hand-washing on the Valar's part, rather than active destruction. They really are rather passive and withdrawn in the face of most crises, aren't they.
I think the free-will issue around Sauron relates to him primarily. It's like they give him enough rope, and hope he sees the error of his ways; but try to mitigate his damage elsewhere by sending in the Istari (like ...Whut ( ... )
Reply
True, but they bothered to go running to Teacher. Couldn't be arsed when Melkor or Sauron were running roughshod over Middle-earth, but God forbid they should have an unwelcome visitor!
It's especially absurd when you consider that Ulmo controls the frickin' ocean, and presumably could just have a big headwind come up against the Numenoreans until the fleet got bored and sailed home.
I think the free-will issue around Sauron relates to him primarily.Oh, I see what you mean now. Explains Saruman too, actually, because Varda knew that was going to go down like a lead balloon and sent him anyway ( ... )
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