The way it was written was just clunky. So clunky. So bad.
And the notion, also, that the only thing that could be more powerful than the Red Room and the mission is ... a child? That whole scene needed a strong edit because wow, it was not well done.
Thank you for posting this. I almost went nuts on someone on tumblr because they said that this is clearly what the filmmakers believe- that women who can't have children are monsters. It's so weird to me that people would think that because a character believes something about themselves, that is a) automatically true and b) clearly what the filmmakers think about the character.
The whole scene had previously been so much about the person she was forced to kill (which was clearly part of the "graduation day") that I read the whole thing about being turned into a killer and feeling like a monster because of it.
That said, I did feel like the sterilization thing was clunky, and kind of can't forgive Bruce for not at least hugging her or something. Cap would have. Is he so terrified of sexual attraction he can't even be her friend? (Yes. But still...)
Oh, yeah, no question it was clunky - at some point you've got to say that if a high enough number of people are getting something out of a scene that you didn't want them to, you have failed.
I had less issues with the line, per se, and more issues with how the romance felt like it was created in part to get to a point where Natasha could reveal this character detail about herself, which the writer felt was important, but which I felt was irrelevant. And that's why it annoyed me. I can buy that in the universe itself, this would matter to Nat -- that it is important to how she sees herself, and to her feelings about what was done to her to make her who she is. But I tend to think someone like Natasha would have long ago worked through that issue so that it is not the thing she needs to reveal to tell someone about herself, and I resent that the movie structured the scene in such a way that it was the logical point to reveal. I mean, I hated that a lot. Because tho I think your read on it is an interpretation that works for me, that's not what I think they were going for
( ... )
But I tend to think someone like Natasha would have long ago worked through that issue
Holy crap, yes. If there's someone in the entire universe who understands themselves, that person is Natasha. (Which may be why CA:TWS unsettled her so badly: her understanding of her institutional context was shown to be seriously flawed, when she thought she knew who she was and what her role was in the world.)
Yeah, I tend more toward the view of Natasha where she's very conscious about her identity at any given time - which isn't to say that she doesn't have a stable self, but that she's a person who made an incredible change in that self as a young adult, and sees "who you are" as malleable. So I don't find it implausible that in the wake of CATWS and losing SHIELD, she might decide to try on a different Natasha.
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And the notion, also, that the only thing that could be more powerful than the Red Room and the mission is ... a child? That whole scene needed a strong edit because wow, it was not well done.
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That said, I did feel like the sterilization thing was clunky, and kind of can't forgive Bruce for not at least hugging her or something. Cap would have. Is he so terrified of sexual attraction he can't even be her friend? (Yes. But still...)
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Holy crap, yes. If there's someone in the entire universe who understands themselves, that person is Natasha. (Which may be why CA:TWS unsettled her so badly: her understanding of her institutional context was shown to be seriously flawed, when she thought she knew who she was and what her role was in the world.)
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