Meta - Gwen and others

[kazzy]

Just for clarification (I have a viewing problem), I haven’t seen Ghost Machine, Cyberwoman, or Small Worlds. I do know Cyberwoman, and Ghost Machine fairly well, and have a rough outline of Small Worlds but I’m sure to make some incorrect assumptions based on not having seen them. Correct me, if I do

Comments

[kikibug13]

Let’s start with me being chicken

Me too. With overly developed imagination as well. I skip-watched the episode, using Media Player... but not skipping large chunks, just a bit, to break down the tension.

Which inevitably leads us to the fact of Owen (and there is something perverse in me that loves Gwen/Owen).

And something perverse in me as well. (Well, there are certainly worse-looking men than Owen... but he still _is_ a prick, judging from his comment to Toshiko. )
But something cynical in me still drones on that Gwen would be just a number for Owen. He won't bond to her any more than he would bond to Tosh, and that will hurt Gwen.
Of course, I may be wrong.

there were points in this ep that I thought we finally might have started to see Gwen-as-second-in-command

Ah-ha! I am _not_ the only one who sees that! Yay!

the lack of team unity between the Torchwood members... There is very much an element of self-service there.Well, yes. Of course

[kazzy]

Me too. With overly developed imagination as well. I skip-watched the episode, using Media Player... but not skipping large chunks, just a bit, to break down the tension. I hit pause and jump up and wander around the house, before sitting down again.

But something cynical in me still drones on that Gwen would be just a number for Owen. I'm of two minds. There's the part of me that agrees with you and then there's the side of me that thinks he may just end up getting just as hurt as she will. But that's why I say we don't know enough about Owen to be sure.

He seems to kiss well, though. Probably would make the alien glow, but... close ;) yes, his kisses do look sexy as hell. But then so do Gwen's (and she's had a few).

[kikibug13]

I hit pause and jump up and wander around the house, before sitting down again.

Did that on the previous episodes. This one was a bit too much for me. Chicken to the n-th!

[kazzy]

LOL. You win! :P

[seimaisin]

I really, really like this take on it. It jives with the way I've been reading it ... that the whole point of this is that, instead of Gwen giving the team back their humanity, she's very quickly losing the humanity that Jack prized in her from the beginning

[kikibug13]

Gwen is exploring her 'dark' side

Or "Gwen is giving up the fight with her dark side", although her not shooting that guy may mean there is hope yet.

[seimaisin]

She's struggling, that's for sure! I suspect we'll see a "redemption" of sorts before the season is up, but for now, she seems to be losing.

[kazzy]

Gwen and Owen will never have a happily ever after, and in fact I don't think either would ever apply to them. Right now, they may need each other, but it's going to be a wreck. And I wouldn't want to see it. Which is awfully perverse, but it's true.

[iko]

...the lack of team unity between the Torchwood members.

Definitely. Everyone is there for a reason, independent reasons. For instance, I'm definitely watching Ianto very carefully, because his huge secret/reason (Lisa) is gone. Granted, he worked for Torchwood London (and had his own reasons to work there), but he's moved from there to Cardiff for Lisa.

B.G. (before Gwen), there wasn't anyone like her in Torchwood. She brings a heart into their midst. I think it will be interesting to see what her perspective brings to the team as a whole as the season progresses.

[kazzy]

Ianto's the one to watch, certainly. As I said, his reasons for staying in the backrgound are gone, and as you said, his reasons for coming to Cardiff are gone. That's a whole lot of purpose he's missing. You don't just stand up from that.

[kammgirl]

Excellent analysis. I have watched from the beginning and I have to say as an American seeing such graphic sex and gore scenes on TV is a shock to me. Hell, hearing the F word on TV is a shock to me. That is reserved for cable here. The stories are much darker then anything I have watched before and unlike DW, I don't always feel the sense of optimism in them. There are bad things out there and the team sometimes has to sacrifice innocents for the greater good. Many times there just isn't a happy ending. But that is reality

[kazzy]

Brittish television does tend to be darker than American television, it's true. However, I don't find Torchwood quite so dark. But you're right, I think there's a tendency, not so much to end on an unhappy note, as a note with too many things left hanging. Not in the manner of bad writing (the opposite in fact), but in a way that isn't necessarily comfortable for the viewer. We're left on shaky ground, waiting for next weeks ep

[miladyhawke]

Yes, I could make all sorts of comments about Gwen and Owen’s relationship and how wrong and twisted it is, but we’ve all been there, we know why it’s wrong and we know that both of their motivations for the relationship are wrong and that it is going to be messy. There’s a big part of me that says ‘good!’, as much as I know it’s probably going to be a train wreck.

I think that's why I have a perverse liking for it too ;) Messes like this are just fun to watch.

[kazzy]

Yeah, they are. It also makes one wonder what the series finale is going to bring, because you don't spend that much time working on characters and pairings if you're not going to throw them some damage. Especially not if you want to follow in the footsteps of Joss Whedon.