It absolutely IS the responsibility of the school to take action when there is visible and obvious bullying. The school takes on the responsibility to watch the children and kids who attend, and that means that if they SEE, or HEAR, or are AWARE of bullying, they should absolutely try and stop it. No questions asked. Our school (all girls), suspended half of my class senior year because they had a party with a racist theme. Off campus (granted it was during school hours, but how is them being online, but AT school, any different from them passing hateful notes in the hallway). The school was right to punish them. Those girls were stupid, they were wrong, and they deserved the punishment. And they agree with me. None of them are screaming civil liberties. They are all successful, adult women, who recognize what they did was wrong
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I disagree completely. The school is responsible for kids on school grounds during school hours and school events. Outside of that, it's the parents' responsibility to deal with their children. If the school becomes aware of something that takes place outside of the school, whether it's bullying, a racist party, or some sort of orgy cult, they should notify the parents, but beyond that it's not the school's responsibility to police the kids 24x7 or punish them for something that isn't school-related.
I think everyone who's been a teenager has been in a "wanting to die" mindset at least once. Everyone, at some point, gets depressed and/or feels isolated and unloved. Only the unstable ones go and off themselves.
and if the instability is directly CAUSED by the bullying? what is your answer to that? You truly believe that there is no such thing as a causal effect to such violent peer pressure?
It is perfectly possible to resist peer pressure and not give in. It is perfectly possible to take bullying and roll with the punches. So no, I don't believe that there is a causal effect to peer pressure. The only effect is what you allow it to have, and if you allow it to push you to the point where you would commit suicide, then you are unstable.
Dude, being a teenager is often the pre-existing mental problem. And if a bully is purposefully harassing their victim, they 'take the victim as they find them' and all the consequences that arise from it.
And if bullies are using school computers, it is the school's job to be the cyberpolice. And often when kids sign up for extracurriculars like sports teams, one of the papers they sign has a morals clause- if the participant breaks the law, they're kicked out of the activity. It's up to the school to hold kids to their contracts.
I haven't seen your local news story, so I don't know what the parents are expecting the school to do. But schools oversee the vast majority of the face time between bullies and victims. I seriously doubt that behavior that has gone to that extreme in cyberspace hasn't made it into day to day life.
" I seriously doubt that behavior that has gone to that extreme in cyberspace hasn't made it into day to day life."
this.
The girl who killed herself over MySpace was a teenager, being told by the boy she was in love with (and teenage infautation is far crazier, more impassioned and less logical than the feelings of an adult, which is saying a lot considering how crazy it is as an adult) that he wanted her to kill herself, the world was better off without her, she was universally hated.
I cannot imagine the sort of break in psyche that sort of emotional abuse would cause. You certainly would not need a pre-existing condition of instability for it to lead to the extreme.
Ugh... one of my worst party experiences is trying to ditch an idiot who wouldn't acknowledge the fact that depraved heart murder existed and wouldn't shut up about the Myspace case.
Maybe you were sheltered as a teenager. I bullied, and I was bullied. Nobody I know killed themselves, and neither did I. We all got depressed on occasion, got angry, got pissy, but ultimately it helps us develop thick skins and learn to ignore the bullshit and move on with our lives.
If someone kills themselves over it, then there is something wrong with them. A mental disorder or chemical imbalance or something. They're not stable, though, if they commit, or attempt, suicide.
Schools engender an environment that plays to the base and barbaric natures of teenagers. It is unbelievable to me that our society tolerates even a fraction of what occurs.
If I created a Facebook group that was specifically anti-Dale, and I make threatening comments or infer harrassment, I can go to jail. Yet, somehow its ok because its highschool and 'its a fact of life?'
I agree to an extent what the school should be able to do with students that are out of school. But in cases where a bulk of the animosity between bully and victim started in school, the school police officer should ready to arrest the bully the minute he/she steps on school grounds. Its illegal. In school or out of school no longer matters.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the kids don't take advantage of the opportunities that high school offers, so the majority of them are just wasting their time. Which sucks, because limiting the time kids spend there would deny the motivated kids the opportunity to take really interesting classes, get involved in arts, etc.
My high school focused a lot on getting all kids into post-secondary options, not necessarily college. It helped with the atmosphere a lot, I think because a lot of kids realized that even if their grades weren't super they still had a future, so it felt less like a waste of time.
Sit too many bored teens around each other for too long and it starts to look like gen pop in Oz.
You can never understand the opportunities offered to you in your youth until you are too old to take advantage of them.
And I cant conceivably think of a way that I would have made better choices based upon a hypothetical future which at the time didnt seem all that bright.
But from an entirely adult viewpoint you're totally correct.
True, we can't give kids motivation, we can only hope that something piques their interest. But I also worry about hobbling the kids who would take the opportunities- motivation is pretty easy to kill.
"If your kid kills themselves, it's because they had pre-existing mental and/or emotional problems, not because of the bullying. Be better parents and stop expecting other people to care about your child as much as you do."
coming from a teacher....the fact that you even wrote this comment is utterly disappointing and appalling. I am sorry, this is just not the case. I have students who have lost parents, siblings, who have no money or even no home. They have so many problems at home....and to have fellow students tell them they are worthless and an awful person is enough to drive them over the edge. I am sorry, your statement is grossly incorrect here. *grossly*
I'm pretty sure that qualifies as a pre-existing problem, and these students should be watched closely for signs that indicate they're approaching that edge. These are exceptions that prove the rule.
No mentally and emotionally stable person commits suicide.
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I think everyone who's been a teenager has been in a "wanting to die" mindset at least once. Everyone, at some point, gets depressed and/or feels isolated and unloved. Only the unstable ones go and off themselves.
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I am absolutely in shock that you, of all people, would come out with this one.
-really, I am.
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And if bullies are using school computers, it is the school's job to be the cyberpolice. And often when kids sign up for extracurriculars like sports teams, one of the papers they sign has a morals clause- if the participant breaks the law, they're kicked out of the activity. It's up to the school to hold kids to their contracts.
I haven't seen your local news story, so I don't know what the parents are expecting the school to do. But schools oversee the vast majority of the face time between bullies and victims. I seriously doubt that behavior that has gone to that extreme in cyberspace hasn't made it into day to day life.
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this.
The girl who killed herself over MySpace was a teenager, being told by the boy she was in love with (and teenage infautation is far crazier, more impassioned and less logical than the feelings of an adult, which is saying a lot considering how crazy it is as an adult) that he wanted her to kill herself, the world was better off without her, she was universally hated.
I cannot imagine the sort of break in psyche that sort of emotional abuse would cause. You certainly would not need a pre-existing condition of instability for it to lead to the extreme.
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If someone kills themselves over it, then there is something wrong with them. A mental disorder or chemical imbalance or something. They're not stable, though, if they commit, or attempt, suicide.
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If I created a Facebook group that was specifically anti-Dale, and I make threatening comments or infer harrassment, I can go to jail. Yet, somehow its ok because its highschool and 'its a fact of life?'
I agree to an extent what the school should be able to do with students that are out of school. But in cases where a bulk of the animosity between bully and victim started in school, the school police officer should ready to arrest the bully the minute he/she steps on school grounds. Its illegal. In school or out of school no longer matters.
What passes for high school society is appalling.
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My high school focused a lot on getting all kids into post-secondary options, not necessarily college. It helped with the atmosphere a lot, I think because a lot of kids realized that even if their grades weren't super they still had a future, so it felt less like a waste of time.
Sit too many bored teens around each other for too long and it starts to look like gen pop in Oz.
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And I cant conceivably think of a way that I would have made better choices based upon a hypothetical future which at the time didnt seem all that bright.
But from an entirely adult viewpoint you're totally correct.
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coming from a teacher....the fact that you even wrote this comment is utterly disappointing and appalling. I am sorry, this is just not the case. I have students who have lost parents, siblings, who have no money or even no home. They have so many problems at home....and to have fellow students tell them they are worthless and an awful person is enough to drive them over the edge. I am sorry, your statement is grossly incorrect here. *grossly*
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You are saying something that is true, but it isn't exactly new information.
Also, Dale, I <3 you dude.
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No mentally and emotionally stable person commits suicide.
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