More musings on learning to have and respect healthy boundaries
Maestrodog's response to my prior posting was so thought provoking that I wanted to make a more detailed response as another post. Here it is:
stopping and retreating is not the same as not crossing the boundary at all
I think I am good about stopping when I get a no verbally or nonverbally. I am very clear that a verbal "No" in the moment means "NO. STOP" and I do. However, by that time the boundary crossing has already occurred and all I can do is retreat back as quickly as possible. I get that this retreat is not sufficient. For there to be trust, the other person has to believe you won't cross their current moment's boundaries at all. And that requires either prior agreements that don't change, good awareness of cues, or repeated verifications moment to moment.
Shifting boundaries throw me for a loop.
I'm used to a NO in the moment meaning NO forever. I'm used to being in (mono) relationships where past YESes are tacitly assumed to be a current YES too, unless explicitly said to be otherwise. In these relationships, if hugging was okay yesterday, it is okay today. If a kiss was okay yesterday it is also okay today. If holding hands was okay yesterday it is okay today. If carresses were appreciated yesterday they are welcome today too And if passionate kissing was enjoyed yesterday it is desired today too. And in these relationships, if I momentarily misread and try to take something too far for that moment, the gentle NO tells me not now and I stop, and there is no ongoing distrust that results from my misreading the cues of the moment.
I realize that I have no experience whatsoever with an ongoing relationship where boundaries are changing so much on a daily basis. This struck me hard when in my conversation on this topic last night with S, he prefaced an observation with "you know how in an occasional sexual relationship..." and I realized I didn't know, because I have never had one. The closest thing I have ever had before was a long term marriage and a long live in relationship where we had agreements that sex should be considered unwelcome unless my partner explictly requested it. But where the boundaries on other kinds of physical intimacy (kissing, touching, etc.) didn't change. In fact, even this boundary didn't change - the boundary was wait until asked, and I did. But I have never had an "occassional" relationship before where boundaries have changed fluidly.
Being unskilled in that at all, I'm really afraid about destroying trust in a current relationship. Because I've noticed that once trust is destroyed, it tends to undermine the friendship just as much as it does the physical relationship.
ignoring YESes is a boundary violation
I think I must be pretty atrocious at reading nonverbal cues, since I seem to mistake their meaning a lot. I'm really bad about identifying YESes. So mostly I don't go there at all until a very long term friendship exists AND they initiate, clearly, overtly, and verbally. I just don't read the difference between innocent playful innuendo and innuendo that is hinting. I keep finding that whenever I ask what they are meaning by their innuendo, if it was just being playful, they stop being playful after that - an outcome that I didn't want. So, I am much more likely to just assume it is being playful and pass by any opportunity that might have been a nonverbal yes. I only find out about those missed YESes long after they have passed and have turned to NOs.
What I didn't realize until a conversation last night was that not following up on a YES is also a boundary crossing problem, and this is even scarier to me. For one thing, I do that all the time and never considered that a boundary crossing issue before. I thought I was safe from boundary crossing if I just held back all the time and thereby avoided crossing all the possible NOs. To hear that this strategy also is crossing boundaries just as much but in the opposite direction is scarey. I also feel very embarrased (ashamed?) for callously crossing other people's YES boundaries all these years in my ignorance.
I see others around me who are much younger who seem to be far better at reading these kinds of nonverbal cues. I think that they have practiced them a good bit and that accounts for their high skill level. I feel like people assume that at my age I should have a higher skill level, so they are even more unforgiving and judgemental when I cross their boundaries.
I think I started out with a disadvantage due to undiagnosed ADD. However, that has been further complicated by years of never learning or practicing it all these years. It is scarey to realize how many broken relationships I may have before I learn to do this better, because I really do care about they people I want to be in relationship with.
Distrusting YESes
Part of this problem seems to be that I don't trust YESes. Partly, I think that has been due to low self-esteem. For most of my life, because I couldn't see what others found attractive in me, I didn't believe that it was really there. The story I told myself was that either they would dump me as soon as they knew me, or that they were so desperate that they didn't care who I was, or they were actually being deceptive and trying to manipulate me. I think my self esteem has been improving, but the fear of manipulation of my naivete is still very real.
On this last count in particular I've always wanted to believe in the truthfulness of others, and so I've frequently walked willingly into deceptions. Particularly in the romantic arena, I have been repeatedly manipulated by people who said YES to get me to do something for them (take them to a dance only so they could arrive and immediately dump me in order to spend the whole night with their real boyfriend, or provide them with a home and money to spend, etc.) but who never really intended to deliver on their YES. Of course, in each of the ongoing relationships, when I complained that I felt manipulated, they denied manipulation and always had a ready excuse for what it was this time.
You know what they say, Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Well, I've been manipulated these ways each more than once, so shame on me. As a result I've also been operantly conditioned to distrust YESes. This is not good for anyone who comes after the second (or 3rd or n'th) manipulation and who really is truthful.
Because of this conditioning, when yesterday's YES is suddenly today's NO, it triggers these manipulation memories. My natural habit would then be to distrust promises of future YESes from this person. Rationally, I realize that is unfair, because the person before me is not any of the person's from my past, so I want to keep believing there will be YESes again. But my saboteur reminds me that while they are a different person from anyone in my past, I'm the SAME naive person that has been in all of these relationships.
That's a lot of baggage I see that I am carrying and which will have to be dealt with before going deeper into any relationships. Realizing that there is so much more to do before going to the next level with anyone is disappointing. But, we do what we have to do in the time it takes. Que sera, sera.
stopping and retreating is not the same as not crossing the boundary at all
I think I am good about stopping when I get a no verbally or nonverbally. I am very clear that a verbal "No" in the moment means "NO. STOP" and I do. However, by that time the boundary crossing has already occurred and all I can do is retreat back as quickly as possible. I get that this retreat is not sufficient. For there to be trust, the other person has to believe you won't cross their current moment's boundaries at all. And that requires either prior agreements that don't change, good awareness of cues, or repeated verifications moment to moment.
Shifting boundaries throw me for a loop.
I'm used to a NO in the moment meaning NO forever. I'm used to being in (mono) relationships where past YESes are tacitly assumed to be a current YES too, unless explicitly said to be otherwise. In these relationships, if hugging was okay yesterday, it is okay today. If a kiss was okay yesterday it is also okay today. If holding hands was okay yesterday it is okay today. If carresses were appreciated yesterday they are welcome today too And if passionate kissing was enjoyed yesterday it is desired today too. And in these relationships, if I momentarily misread and try to take something too far for that moment, the gentle NO tells me not now and I stop, and there is no ongoing distrust that results from my misreading the cues of the moment.
I realize that I have no experience whatsoever with an ongoing relationship where boundaries are changing so much on a daily basis. This struck me hard when in my conversation on this topic last night with S, he prefaced an observation with "you know how in an occasional sexual relationship..." and I realized I didn't know, because I have never had one. The closest thing I have ever had before was a long term marriage and a long live in relationship where we had agreements that sex should be considered unwelcome unless my partner explictly requested it. But where the boundaries on other kinds of physical intimacy (kissing, touching, etc.) didn't change. In fact, even this boundary didn't change - the boundary was wait until asked, and I did. But I have never had an "occassional" relationship before where boundaries have changed fluidly.
Being unskilled in that at all, I'm really afraid about destroying trust in a current relationship. Because I've noticed that once trust is destroyed, it tends to undermine the friendship just as much as it does the physical relationship.
ignoring YESes is a boundary violation
I think I must be pretty atrocious at reading nonverbal cues, since I seem to mistake their meaning a lot. I'm really bad about identifying YESes. So mostly I don't go there at all until a very long term friendship exists AND they initiate, clearly, overtly, and verbally. I just don't read the difference between innocent playful innuendo and innuendo that is hinting. I keep finding that whenever I ask what they are meaning by their innuendo, if it was just being playful, they stop being playful after that - an outcome that I didn't want. So, I am much more likely to just assume it is being playful and pass by any opportunity that might have been a nonverbal yes. I only find out about those missed YESes long after they have passed and have turned to NOs.
What I didn't realize until a conversation last night was that not following up on a YES is also a boundary crossing problem, and this is even scarier to me. For one thing, I do that all the time and never considered that a boundary crossing issue before. I thought I was safe from boundary crossing if I just held back all the time and thereby avoided crossing all the possible NOs. To hear that this strategy also is crossing boundaries just as much but in the opposite direction is scarey. I also feel very embarrased (ashamed?) for callously crossing other people's YES boundaries all these years in my ignorance.
I see others around me who are much younger who seem to be far better at reading these kinds of nonverbal cues. I think that they have practiced them a good bit and that accounts for their high skill level. I feel like people assume that at my age I should have a higher skill level, so they are even more unforgiving and judgemental when I cross their boundaries.
I think I started out with a disadvantage due to undiagnosed ADD. However, that has been further complicated by years of never learning or practicing it all these years. It is scarey to realize how many broken relationships I may have before I learn to do this better, because I really do care about they people I want to be in relationship with.
Distrusting YESes
Part of this problem seems to be that I don't trust YESes. Partly, I think that has been due to low self-esteem. For most of my life, because I couldn't see what others found attractive in me, I didn't believe that it was really there. The story I told myself was that either they would dump me as soon as they knew me, or that they were so desperate that they didn't care who I was, or they were actually being deceptive and trying to manipulate me. I think my self esteem has been improving, but the fear of manipulation of my naivete is still very real.
On this last count in particular I've always wanted to believe in the truthfulness of others, and so I've frequently walked willingly into deceptions. Particularly in the romantic arena, I have been repeatedly manipulated by people who said YES to get me to do something for them (take them to a dance only so they could arrive and immediately dump me in order to spend the whole night with their real boyfriend, or provide them with a home and money to spend, etc.) but who never really intended to deliver on their YES. Of course, in each of the ongoing relationships, when I complained that I felt manipulated, they denied manipulation and always had a ready excuse for what it was this time.
You know what they say, Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Well, I've been manipulated these ways each more than once, so shame on me. As a result I've also been operantly conditioned to distrust YESes. This is not good for anyone who comes after the second (or 3rd or n'th) manipulation and who really is truthful.
Because of this conditioning, when yesterday's YES is suddenly today's NO, it triggers these manipulation memories. My natural habit would then be to distrust promises of future YESes from this person. Rationally, I realize that is unfair, because the person before me is not any of the person's from my past, so I want to keep believing there will be YESes again. But my saboteur reminds me that while they are a different person from anyone in my past, I'm the SAME naive person that has been in all of these relationships.
That's a lot of baggage I see that I am carrying and which will have to be dealt with before going deeper into any relationships. Realizing that there is so much more to do before going to the next level with anyone is disappointing. But, we do what we have to do in the time it takes. Que sera, sera.