I am quite undecided on this issue of who was who, lol ;)But yes Renault has been a great influence in the way we perceive their relationship. I don't know whether A-male Philip would have liked his son being the eromenos tho, as the episode with Calixeina demonstrates.
I didn't know Hephaistion had so few relatives in comparison to the others!I learned something new today!Btw have you read the Phd thesis of JRZ?It seems so.
Liked your explanation of the erastis/eromenos model. I read somewhere once that the erastis also functioned as a father replacement, since due to wars and such many boys may have actually been orphans and in need of a father figure( leaving aside the sexual stuff)
Yes, I think Alexander's character was so competitive that I find it difficult to imagine him as the more submisive partner in a relationship. I may be wrong, but I think that the erastes/eromenos model in Athens was supposed to turn into one of close friendship once the elder one married in his late twenties and the younger had grown a beard. Thus the age difference would have been 10 or 12 years at most, and probably nearer 5 years, so that the absent father role is stretching it a little too far. I also think that for a boy to be having a relationship with a man old enough to be his father was perhaps a little too oedipal!
Maybe we see it through the lens of our culture. It was shameful ( at least in Athens) not to have an erastis, so being an eromenos of someone was not showing that taking the role was shameful or that the person was not manly enough. But you are right as far as I know the relationship had to end once the younger partner reached adulthood( beard and such), or else some not very flattering epithets were attached to the eromenos. Still undecided about Alex Hephaistion. I am so undecided that I see them switching roles, which I don't if was ecceptable back then ;)
Perhaps you are right about the age difference thing. The bad thing is I cannot recall where I read what I said. I tend to read a lot of things, but then I forget where I got the info from, lol(fail!). Once again thanx for sharing this with us and well done!
I think it's a fairly general and often repeated assumption that the erastes was a substitute father-figure, but I think that it's a product of modern psychoanalysis.
This is a really cool essay, very professional-sounding :), thanks for posting it. I jumped right into reading this one, haven't seen the others yet, but the erastes/eromenos model has always intrigued me so I wanted to read this one first
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Thanks for the information, it's been a long time since I've had a scholarly discussion about Alexander and Hephaestion and it's a lot of fun *g
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Thanks for your reply. One of the things I was trying to say in these essays was that the traditional model for male/male relationships of an older, dominant male and a younger, submissive male, in Classical Greece may not have been relevant in Macedon, especially as in Alexander and Hephaestion's case as they were about the same age. I'm quite sure they did take turns being dominant when they were younger, but maybe less so if they continued to be lovers later on
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I didn't know Hephaistion had so few relatives in comparison to the others!I learned something new today!Btw have you read the Phd thesis of JRZ?It seems so.
Liked your explanation of the erastis/eromenos model. I read somewhere once that the erastis also functioned as a father replacement, since due to wars and such many boys may have actually been orphans and in need of a father figure( leaving aside the sexual stuff)
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Perhaps you are right about the age difference thing. The bad thing is I cannot recall where I read what I said. I tend to read a lot of things, but then I forget where I got the info from, lol(fail!). Once again thanx for sharing this with us and well done!
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