I am ashamed of my countrytahkhleetNovember 13 2009, 12:17:33 UTC
...not that I know the US is any better, but the smarmy attitude of the officials was just mind boggling. Five years of a man's life gone for moving an object in a way that didn't harm anyway and did not convey any information that could have led to harm.
I don't think much of the police officers present who decided to press him on this, either. Wow, we have so few problems that we can waste jury time and court expenses tearing up _at least_ five years of a guy's life for doing nothing. I guess the point is we're supposed to react to any novel circumstance by running away and researching it first or calling for help. G*d forbid anyone should learn to think on their feet anymore. I mean, the guy's a soldier, it's not like the gun was in any danger of accidentally discharging!
I'm still technically opposed to the collapse of society. But if it happens, I'll add this to my list of things to remind myself of all the -bad- things the collapse will wipe out.
Not quite our countrykoogrrNovember 13 2009, 20:07:16 UTC
Minor technical point: Surrey is in England.
However, England being the source of much of Canada's and the US's common law, jury traditions, and still a rather strong influence socially, everything you've said still stands.
I agree, it's just absurd that the police expected him to run away shrieking 'GONNE! Gonne!' and the jury was -okay- with that, is stunning. They should have said, "Yes, you're right, he's absolutely guilty according to this law but the law is patently stupid so it's invalid. Tell Parliament to try again, the law is nullified."
That's what a Jury of Peers is supposed to do, if it can't, it might as well be handled by a computer.
Re: Not quite our countrytahkhleetNovember 14 2009, 02:57:53 UTC
Well, that's a mild relief, but I admit, I know we have a lot of "ignorance is no defense" laws. I can accept those but very iff they are laws where "common sense" should tell you not to do whatever it is or at the very least where it is clear you are harming or constraining someone. But sadly we've proliferated beyond that. Hopefully not as much in Canada as in Britain. Britain's f*cking insane. I'm glad I'm not trapped there. Something horrible is going to happen there yet, I'm sure
( ... )
Re: Not quite our countrykoogrrNovember 14 2009, 05:17:05 UTC
Well, here's a wikipedia link on Jury Nullification. I suppose it could be used to launch real research.
It seems to have existed as far back as the 12th century. I know of one case, and it was possibly treason related, where a British juror was imprisoned for several months to try and get him to change his verdict to the 'required' one.
Jury Nullification also appears to exist in Canada. It was exercised to protect the Holy Sacrament of abortion by overturnning Morgantaller's conviction, so in theory it could be used in other circumstances, like self-defense.
Not sure what the current state of it is in the US, I know being aware of it is grounds for disqualification in some venues. The judges and lawyers seem quite intent on preventing anyone calling shenanigans and stopping their games.
Comments 5
I don't think much of the police officers present who decided to press him on this, either. Wow, we have so few problems that we can waste jury time and court expenses tearing up _at least_ five years of a guy's life for doing nothing. I guess the point is we're supposed to react to any novel circumstance by running away and researching it first or calling for help. G*d forbid anyone should learn to think on their feet anymore. I mean, the guy's a soldier, it's not like the gun was in any danger of accidentally discharging!
I'm still technically opposed to the collapse of society. But if it happens, I'll add this to my list of things to remind myself of all the -bad- things the collapse will wipe out.
Reply
However, England being the source of much of Canada's and the US's common law, jury traditions, and still a rather strong influence socially, everything you've said still stands.
I agree, it's just absurd that the police expected him to run away shrieking 'GONNE! Gonne!' and the jury was -okay- with that, is stunning. They should have said, "Yes, you're right, he's absolutely guilty according to this law but the law is patently stupid so it's invalid. Tell Parliament to try again, the law is nullified."
That's what a Jury of Peers is supposed to do, if it can't, it might as well be handled by a computer.
Reply
Reply
It seems to have existed as far back as the 12th century. I know of one case, and it was possibly treason related, where a British juror was imprisoned for several months to try and get him to change his verdict to the 'required' one.
Jury Nullification also appears to exist in Canada. It was exercised to protect the Holy Sacrament of abortion by overturnning Morgantaller's conviction, so in theory it could be used in other circumstances, like self-defense.
Not sure what the current state of it is in the US, I know being aware of it is grounds for disqualification in some venues. The judges and lawyers seem quite intent on preventing anyone calling shenanigans and stopping their games.
Reply
Reply
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