The Supreme Court just rejected the death penalty for child rape; Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, said that the punishment was disproportionate. Do you agree or disagree? Why?
I categorically do not believe in the death penalty, not merely out of a blanket nonviolence stance, but because I do not believe that the government should have the authority to punish citizens by killing them.
I don't believe that the government should have the authority to punish citizens by raping them, either, so it seems irrelevant to me whether or not murder and rape are "proportionate". They're both generally Bad Things To Do To People and I don't think the government should be doing them.
Rereading this comment I realize that the tone of voice I was using for the word "generally" did not come across and that my use of it could be interpreted as my saying that I don't always think they're bad things to do to people. NOT WHAT I MEANT AT ALL. Ignore the word "generally"...they're both Bad Things To Do To People!
I don't believe in the death penalty at all, so I agree with them. First, people argued that it was a deterrent. When that was categorically disproved, they argued that it helped the victims and their families get closure. Well, it's possible to get closure without becoming a monster yourself. Humans shouldn't give in to their basest and vilest instincts just because it makes somebody feel good.
I wonder if anybody has ever researched the psychological impact that being employed as an executioner has on a person. Like, how much must it fuck someone up in the head to be the person administering lethal injections or flipping the electric chair switch?
I read a column years ago in which a man who does just that said that it was damaging his marriage because his wife felt she was married to a murderer.
Lethal injections are administered by a team generally, and that is problematic because they're often not medically trained and may be causing excruciating pain to the totally paralyzed victim.
I agree with you. In addition, I do believe that personal experience can really alter the perception of these kinds of matters. Nothing is ever black and white, and while I certainly wouldn't say that I support the death penalty, I can't oppose it in a general sense either.
I would try to explain my stance and my reasoning behind my thoughts on this, but the late Mike Royko put it much more eloquently than I ever could. He's writing on the topic of a rapist and murder named Steve Judy in particular, but I don't think it's necessarily less pertinent.
"Those who oppose the death penalty say that nothing is gained by killing a killer, that the victim can't be brought back, so why should society share in the taking of life?
"I think something is gained. Revenge. And if the act of revenge brings even the tiniest sense of relief and comfort to the families of the victims, then it is well worth taking the life of the killer
( ... )
I can understand the sentiment, but I have a major problem with revenge being the motive behind any penal action. I believe it lowers us as a society to do that.
That's a perfectly good reason to oppose the death penalty. I have no problem with that view. However, I'm always hesitant to offer my thoughts on the subject because people can be so goddamn judgmental - as in, since I'm not absolutely against the death penalty, I'm on the same lower level that you consider this society to be on. There is an inherent judgment in that.
All I can say in my defense is that things can look awfully different when you've been raped as a child, or when a loved one has, for that matter. Don't get me wrong - I know that plenty of people have been in that place and oppose the death penalty. I'm glad for them. But it's not where we all necessarily are, and personal experience has a lot to do with it sometimes. And personally, I have no qualms about feeling the way I do.
The legal question before the court is not whether it was a good idea.. but whether it was proportional. The 8th amendment requires proportionality, otherwise it is cruel and unusual. We cannot deny anyone human rights (this is a lesson our President does not seem to understand.)
It is clearly not proportional. I reject the notion that the death penalty brings closure to the victim. You've been rear-ended and paralyzed.. and the state says, "we will help you bring closure. *we* will rear-end and paralyze the person that hit you."
How is that supposed to help?
I really enjoy these discussions, and I miss them.
--Sam P.S Roxanne, could you possibly send me your current contact info?
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I don't believe that the government should have the authority to punish citizens by raping them, either, so it seems irrelevant to me whether or not murder and rape are "proportionate". They're both generally Bad Things To Do To People and I don't think the government should be doing them.
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Lethal injections are administered by a team generally, and that is problematic because they're often not medically trained and may be causing excruciating pain to the totally paralyzed victim.
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Maybe I'm just too harsh.
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I would try to explain my stance and my reasoning behind my thoughts on this, but the late Mike Royko put it much more eloquently than I ever could. He's writing on the topic of a rapist and murder named Steve Judy in particular, but I don't think it's necessarily less pertinent.
"Those who oppose the death penalty say that nothing is gained by killing a killer, that the victim can't be brought back, so why should society share in the taking of life?
"I think something is gained. Revenge. And if the act of revenge brings even the tiniest sense of relief and comfort to the families of the victims, then it is well worth taking the life of the killer ( ... )
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All I can say in my defense is that things can look awfully different when you've been raped as a child, or when a loved one has, for that matter. Don't get me wrong - I know that plenty of people have been in that place and oppose the death penalty. I'm glad for them. But it's not where we all necessarily are, and personal experience has a lot to do with it sometimes. And personally, I have no qualms about feeling the way I do.
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It is clearly not proportional. I reject the notion that the death penalty brings closure to the victim. You've been rear-ended and paralyzed.. and the state says, "we will help you bring closure. *we* will rear-end and paralyze the person that hit you."
How is that supposed to help?
I really enjoy these discussions, and I miss them.
--Sam
P.S Roxanne, could you possibly send me your current contact info?
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