Since I have a hard time making decisions, I will post this both here and on Jenny's blog (which you should read if you thought mine was either interesting or downright insulting
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I'm sorry, Kenny, but that won't work. Words don't change their meanings just because you want them to.
The word " atheist" means "one who believes that there is no deity" (Merriam-Webster Online), where " deity" means "god/God." When capitalized, God denotes the Supreme Being who created the universe and is worshipped as its ruler. If you prefer the polytheistic viewpoint, god can be lowercased to denote a supernatural being or object that requires worship.
That's what "atheist" means. It can't mean anything else. You now wish to narrow the debate, excluding from our discussion of morality any people who deny the existence of a supernatural being but still adhere to objective principles that go beyond the simple laws of nature and mathematics. That's a debate we can have if you like, but that is not a debate about "atheists," because those people you're excluding are atheists.
(In case you haven't figured it out, the debate is much livelier over on Kenny's blog. :-) I'm cross-posting this there.)
Is it so crazy to consider a notion that is grounded in faith rather than reason, has far arching implications on how we are supposed to live our lives, and is observed with reverence as a deity? I am of course referring to the concept of Good, not "God." One of the definitions of deity is even "One revered as supremely good." If the concept of Good itself isn't that, what is?
On an entirely unrelated note, of course I can change a definition just because I want to. The only problem is the further I get from commonly accepted perceptions the more insane I shall seem. A problem I do not believe I have here, since, as mentioned above, the concept of some abstract Good seems to be deific to the tee.
Wow! Sorry, that last comment had paragraphs and everything when I typed it, no clue what happened. Also, why is LiveJournal trying to sell me skincare products every time I try to comment here?
Kenny, Are you a Catholic? Why not, if you believe, along with Catholics, that Jesus Christ is Son of God and Savior?
Are you a Jew? Why not, if you believe, along with the Jewish people, in one G-d who created the universe and whose deeds are recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures (also called the Old Testament)?
Are you a Muslim? Why not, if you believe, along with the Muslims, that Jesus of Nazareth was sent by God to carry His word to the world?
Are you a Hindu? Why not, if you believe, along with the Hindus, that the world we inhabit as corporeal humans is not all there is, that something beyond awaits the inner spirit?
Of course, the answer to these questions is no. It would cheapen all of the religions involved in that question to imply that they could be equated in such a reductionist manner.
Atheists are people whose view of the world does not include a concept of deific Good to be held in reverence through faith, even though it may indeed incorporate a reasoned concept of good and morality external to themselves. The word
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Were I able to edit my previous comment, I would edit the penultimate paragraph as follows:
You have studied ethics, Kenny, and I know that you can quote utilitarianism just as well as I can, if not better. You have spoken to me of utilitarian ethics as a way to determine what is right and good. Yet I doubt that you visit a Utilitarian church on Sunday. You might know about the principle of the categorical imperative, but I doubt that you say your prayers to Immanuel Kant.
Kindly take this change as read. :-) Thanks! --Jenny
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The word " atheist" means "one who believes that there is no deity" (Merriam-Webster Online), where " deity" means "god/God." When capitalized, God denotes the Supreme Being who created the universe and is worshipped as its ruler. If you prefer the polytheistic viewpoint, god can be lowercased to denote a supernatural being or object that requires worship.
That's what "atheist" means. It can't mean anything else. You now wish to narrow the debate, excluding from our discussion of morality any people who deny the existence of a supernatural being but still adhere to objective principles that go beyond the simple laws of nature and mathematics. That's a debate we can have if you like, but that is not a debate about "atheists," because those people you're excluding are atheists.
(In case you haven't figured it out, the debate is much livelier over on Kenny's blog. :-) I'm cross-posting this there.)
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On an entirely unrelated note, of course I can change a definition just because I want to. The only problem is the further I get from commonly accepted perceptions the more insane I shall seem. A problem I do not believe I have here, since, as mentioned above, the concept of some abstract Good seems to be deific to the tee.
Posted here and upon my journal.
Kenny
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Kenny
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Are you a Catholic? Why not, if you believe, along with Catholics, that Jesus Christ is Son of God and Savior?
Are you a Jew? Why not, if you believe, along with the Jewish people, in one G-d who created the universe and whose deeds are recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures (also called the Old Testament)?
Are you a Muslim? Why not, if you believe, along with the Muslims, that Jesus of Nazareth was sent by God to carry His word to the world?
Are you a Hindu? Why not, if you believe, along with the Hindus, that the world we inhabit as corporeal humans is not all there is, that something beyond awaits the inner spirit?
Of course, the answer to these questions is no. It would cheapen all of the religions involved in that question to imply that they could be equated in such a reductionist manner.
Atheists are people whose view of the world does not include a concept of deific Good to be held in reverence through faith, even though it may indeed incorporate a reasoned concept of good and morality external to themselves. The word ( ... )
Reply
You have studied ethics, Kenny, and I know that you can quote utilitarianism just as well as I can, if not better. You have spoken to me of utilitarian ethics as a way to determine what is right and good. Yet I doubt that you visit a Utilitarian church on Sunday. You might know about the principle of the categorical imperative, but I doubt that you say your prayers to Immanuel Kant.
Kindly take this change as read. :-) Thanks! --Jenny
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