Comments | lanoyee: Pen & Paper; author's commentary.

lanoyee

Pen & Paper; author's commentary.

Jul 03, 2013 22:22

Because this is one of those fics where I tried to say a lot of things in the quite sparse words the fic is comprised of. Or maybe it's that a lot of thoughts went into why I wrote and phrased certain things the way I did. Thus, here the commentary. In which I may or may not be stating the obvious. I don't know how many of these things one could ( Read more... )

the commentary is wordier than the fic, fic commentary, buffy summers, bangel, fanfiction, thinky thoughts, buffy the vampire slayer, angel

Comments 24

red_satin_doll July 11 2013, 19:27:38 UTC

I like this commentary very much - more "meta-essay" than some commentaries I've read. I definitely think you conveyed all the points you bring up but I'm not sure I'd thought all the way through the idea of "objectification" being paralleled in art and in "love". I should know better than to forget that because art and art history has always been of interest to me. (Weirdly enough I've been thinking about objectification lately via my own complicity through the lovely Winged!Buffy fanart image comlodge made me. I adore looking at it and showing it off - but how much is just aesthetic pleasure. how much is sexual/sensual "kink", how much am I objectifying both Buffy's and Sarah's bodies? And am I bullshitting myself by telling myself that the nude images of Sarah that she posed for are the basis for the image, so somehow that gets me off the hook because the image doesn't paste her head onto someone else's body? If the person in question gives me implicit "permission" to look, does that excuse the spectator's actions? Is the act of looking ( ... )

red_satin_doll July 11 2013, 19:27:51 UTC

I did some nude figure drawing with a model myself a few years ago. I think beforehand, I was vaguely worried I'd be embarassed or end up staring inappropriately, but what it ended up being wasn't sexy at all. I took on sort of an "artist's gaze", if you will.

I've been on the other side of the easel as a model for my partner early in our relationship. I remember hooting in derision at that scene in Titanic; a few years earlier I believed as Buffy does here that it would be romantic and its anything but. It's boring, uncomfortable, and I wasn't supposed to even move a little bit. (In many cases I actually fell asleep.) It's really quite clinical and mundane. And we were new in our relationship and still "had the hots for each other" but it was exactly what you describe. It was a job for both of us.

Sometimes when people fall in love with each other, they fall in love with an idea, or with a - hmmm, how do I say this - a "tool", if you will. They think of the other person first and foremost in terms of what that person does for them ( ... )

lanoyee July 15 2013, 18:29:06 UTC

Hmm, much to think about.

Definitely. I must confess I committed a major faux pas a while ago -- I drew a Buffy/Spike fanart with, uhm, both in the nude. Then I realized that OOPS, maybe that's a wee bit disrespectful, and put a nightie on Buffy (You basically just see head, arm and a bit of torso of Spike). I'm still not sure whether I'm comfortable with it now, though. I mean, it is very much a bedroom scene and it's pretty clear what is going on, so. :[a Hm.

You have GOT to read bone_dry1013's story "Origin and Season One" which reimagines Buffy's life both before and during the early seasons of the series; and really delves into Buffy's psyche in a realistic and substantive way.

I definitely have it on my mental "to read" list! It sounds super lovely.

Pun intended?

LOL no, actually not. :P

Right - the three are assumed to go hand in hand

They really are. I must confess I've always had my problems with that. This assumption that if people are not having sex, or if they're single, that they're somehow emotionally immature.

( ... )

red_satin_doll July 15 2013, 21:11:12 UTC

I drew a Buffy/Spike fanart with, uhm, both in the nude.

Is it like this one by dualbunny
Or the ones in the older comic, "Withdrawal"? (set S6)
https://digital.darkhorse.com/profile/1384.buffy-the-vampire-slayer-classic-48-withdrawl/

I'm really not sure about the "disrespectful" question. Sarah supposedly had some control over her image as Buffy in the comics etc but I find that hard to believe to be the case with S8-9. (She didn't even know about the Satsu storyline.) gabrielleabelle had a meta discussion once about why people found the spacefrak offensive, and the fact that Sarah had a "no nudity" clause in her contract came up as something that made people extra squicky re: the comics. (JM is almost fully nude in more than one ep, Sarah never is.) So I think covering her up a bit was probably the way to go? It's a tough question. More than I can begin to parse out here. Having control of our own images and bodies is good - but ( ... )

Thread 14

lavitaebella July 14 2013, 18:52:49 UTC

Hi Val. How are you? I'm amazed your still LJ'ing. :) I'm a stay at home Mom to my daughter who is now 2.5 and my twin boys who are 1.5 now. Time flies, huh? What have you been up to?

lanoyee July 14 2013, 18:58:46 UTC

OMG hi! ♥ It's been ages! Wow, three kids. And so big already. :) Are the twins identical or fraternal? And yes, haha. Even though most of my friends have pretty much abandoned lj, but as you can see, I am here to Buffy it up. Besides that, I am STILL working on my bachelor's degree and will be writing exams tomorrow and Tuesday.

lavitaebella July 14 2013, 19:08:37 UTC

They're fraternal but they look a lot alike. Still in school, huh? Lol I'm actually not surprised. How long do you have yet? You don't facebook, do you? That's basically the only social site I frequent.

lanoyee July 14 2013, 19:11:57 UTC

Yeeeah. I'm really hoping to finish next spring. Stuff happened etc. pp. And I do have facebook, actually! I'm Valerie Wiegandt on there.

Are you still in fandom at all?

Thread 6

leni_ba July 22 2013, 18:27:41 UTC

Sorry to barge in uninvited, but a little birdie (*points at LJ*) told me I was mentioned here, and I couldn't help my curiosity. Loved the conversation - many points I haven't thought about in too long. I've kind of disconnected myself from fandom in the last months.

And thank you so much for the recommendation! Courting Sin is my favorite alternate 'verse, after all these years, and it's great to see someone else likes it too. :)

Loved the fic in the post, too. Early B/A is one of my favorite things to read, if only because it's so hard for me to write.

lanoyee July 22 2013, 18:48:05 UTC

Hey there! Come in, have a seat. :)

I always love these wonderful meta conversations with red_satin_doll. So many meta things, all of them. *-* If you have thoughts, I'd love to talk about those too btw.

I haven't read your fic yet, but I have it open in a tab. :) IT WILL GET READ I SWEAR.

And thank you! I never ever thought I'd write something like this, to be honest, but it just kind of popped into my head and demanded to be put into words. Is a writer not a slave to her ideas...

leni_ba July 22 2013, 18:57:32 UTC

Indeed, I'm familiar with the idea of being a slave to my muse. lol But it's worth it, and that's the point. :)

I've never been one to have too many meta thoughts. Love reading someone else's, but when it comes to mine, they always come camouflaged in plot-bunny costumes and pushing me to WRITE WRITE WRITE! lol That's one of the reasons I've written mostly in alternate worlds. I love seeing the characters react to different realities, and yet remain who they are. The fact that all of these worlds happen to be B/A or B/Aus... well... you can blame my inner 'shipper for that. She's quite shameless that way. ;)

As a note, Courting Sin (the first fic) can be a stand-alone. Sometimes even I like it better to think of it like that. But there is a world beyond it, stuttering all the way to alternate AtS5 - and a bit after that, too. The ficlets can be placed easily in the timeline, but I write the drabble nilly-willy, so they're better appreciated at kitdcourtingsin. I updated the first week of every month. :D

red_satin_doll August 18 2013, 18:43:19 UTC

A little bit late myself here (noticed lanoyee mentioned my name *hugs*)

I've just joined the community thank you for the link!

As a note, Courting Sin (the first fic) can be a stand-alone. Sometimes even I like it better to think of it like that.

I sort of think of it as a stand-alone too? Or rather, it can be read that way although I've read some of the rest of the stories. Really masterful. I used to think that shipping Buffy/Angelus was the most bizarre thing in the world when I first got into this fandom. then I watched the later seasons. Hah.

If someone is gonna do a 'ship? Please get it right. Courting Sin gets it right.