On the other hand, I myself agree with some of the guest's points, such as:
* Religious beliefs are not scientific claims, are not to be confused with science, and -- by extension -- should not affect how we understand science.
There is a difference between "knowledge" and "belief". People who "believe" something do so precisely because it is NOT something that can be proven, disproven, or settled in a scientific manner.
It is for this reason that a "belief" in Elvis' current life is ridiculous. This is not a matter for belief. The claim that "Elvis is alive" actually can be tested in a scientific manner. It would simply require the exhumation of Elvis' grave and DNA testing to prove that the body buried there is actually identical to the body that sang "Don't Be Cruel".
Now, someone could believe that Elvis' soul still haunts the world, or that they are possessed by Elvis' spirit, or that they are the reincarnation of Elvis. As far as I can tell, none of those claims can be tested; ergo, that
( ... )
The problem is that people want to claim belief as a reason for action, specifically a reason to change other people's behavior. This is where belief gets obnoxious because it is admittedly irrational.
*I just got pounded for someone else's beliefs and I am not inclined to play nice about it*
So we can agree that belief, being untestable, can not and should not be considered in the realm of science because it is not testable? I am willing to give you that.
I couldn't agree with you more. "Belief, being untestable, can not and should not be considered in the realm of science because it is not testable" -- that states it perfectly.
The world is full of hypocrites.
I used to live across the street from a rabbi who once told me that it is his opinion that most "religious" people are very concerned about their own physical well-being and other peoples' spiritual well-being, but most religions really want people to be concerned with their own spiritual well-being and other peoples' physical well-being. I think he's absolutely right.
I do think that belief should be a reason for action, yes -- specifically a reason to treat other people with respect and compassion. (Not the only reason to do so. But a reason.) As Abraham Lincoln is said to have said, "I have no respect for a man's religion if his wife and dog are not the better for it."
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On the other hand, I myself agree with some of the guest's points, such as:
* Religious beliefs are not scientific claims, are not to be confused with science, and -- by extension -- should not affect how we understand science.
There is a difference between "knowledge" and "belief". People who "believe" something do so precisely because it is NOT something that can be proven, disproven, or settled in a scientific manner.
It is for this reason that a "belief" in Elvis' current life is ridiculous. This is not a matter for belief. The claim that "Elvis is alive" actually can be tested in a scientific manner. It would simply require the exhumation of Elvis' grave and DNA testing to prove that the body buried there is actually identical to the body that sang "Don't Be Cruel".
Now, someone could believe that Elvis' soul still haunts the world, or that they are possessed by Elvis' spirit, or that they are the reincarnation of Elvis. As far as I can tell, none of those claims can be tested; ergo, that ( ... )
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*I just got pounded for someone else's beliefs and I am not inclined to play nice about it*
So we can agree that belief, being untestable, can not and should not be considered in the realm of science because it is not testable? I am willing to give you that.
Reply
The world is full of hypocrites.
I used to live across the street from a rabbi who once told me that it is his opinion that most "religious" people are very concerned about their own physical well-being and other peoples' spiritual well-being, but most religions really want people to be concerned with their own spiritual well-being and other peoples' physical well-being. I think he's absolutely right.
I do think that belief should be a reason for action, yes -- specifically a reason to treat other people with respect and compassion. (Not the only reason to do so. But a reason.) As Abraham Lincoln is said to have said, "I have no respect for a man's religion if his wife and dog are not the better for it."
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