Comments | libidoergosum: something has been irritating me lately

libidoergosum

something has been irritating me lately

Aug 26, 2003 22:33

Some days ago, I posted about learning and internalizing the seven Core Army Values: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity and Personal Courage

parallaxative thinks that those seven values equate to a more sinister set of conditions ( Read more... )

Comments 21

freakchylde August 26 2003, 19:56:45 UTC

loyalty does not = obedience, it =strength to your own values and holding to them.
duty is a job, a personal one the is honoured to those you choose to.
respect is what you give to those who uphold their values, follow their duties and uphold their loyalty.
honour is what you get when you know you did the right thing in following your loyalties, fulfilling your duties and upholding the respect you've earned.
integrity is what you get when these previous conditions are fulfilled.
personal courage is when you uphold all these things to yourself, and knowing that you are living up to your own standards.

all very much like the celtic triads and the norse noble virtues. the only people that pass them off are those that can't identify in them, what already exists within their own psyche.

lizzielove August 27 2003, 07:28:14 UTC

I couldn't agree more. There is nothing wrong with any of those concepts, and in fact they are sorely lacking in our society.

libidoergosum August 27 2003, 20:09:25 UTC

that was the point of the whole exercise.

dwivian August 26 2003, 20:04:11 UTC

It may seem insulting, but the construction of a soldier involves the removal of divisive will, and that is instruction in obedience, conforming to the UCMJ and the indoctrination necessary to dehumanize the individual, leaving a tool that will bring death and destruction to the enemy by simple force of remaining will.

The terms are different, but they have merit -- if the Army didn't take these efforts to dismantle the layers society adds to an individual there would be no way to recraft the person into an effective fighting tool, part of an elite force.

To those that want to preserve the individual, the Army is a dangerous entity. To those that want to preserve the society that makes individualism possible, the Army is a necessity.

To the soldier....well, it's a job, and discipline is either the thing that washes you out, or causes you to reach abilities outside those available in society.

libidoergosum August 26 2003, 20:20:14 UTC

this is the kind of thinking that I was looking for. An argument defending his associations. Yes I believe there is indoctrination, dehumanization, death, destruction and conformity in the military. I also believe that the if the individual is strong enough, complete dismantling is not necessary. One can chage without jettisoning the entirety of who you were, it all depends on who you are now, who you want to become and how strong your will is. If you possess the 7 values previously, there is no need to give yourself up to the indoctrination or dehumanization.

scottopic August 26 2003, 21:47:32 UTC

Yeah, it seems more like how anything can be taken to extremes.
From one angle it's dehumanizing, from another, it's selfless service -- application and intent mean something here.

I've met military people who scare me. I've met some I want having my back in almost any situation. People people people.

libidoergosum August 27 2003, 01:36:11 UTC

It IS the people that make the difference. We must realize that in an organization as big as the Army (1M soldiers) there are bound to be rotten apples.

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unrepentant August 27 2003, 13:23:04 UTC

To think, I would have know all this first hand if I had gone to West Point...

libidoergosum August 27 2003, 20:14:16 UTC

DUDE!!!! you got a chance to go to WEST POINT?!?!!! I'm so NOT worthy!

unrepentant August 28 2003, 06:08:43 UTC

Had the full ride waiting for me. My dad was a full bird when he was still in & had it all set up. I made the decision NOT to go when I thought I wanted a family & all that instead of just going hard core & all the way.

Every time I visited WP, it seemed no one was too happy up there!

finstergrrrl March 15 2004, 22:35:51 UTC

heh, if it's anything like USAFA (and i've heard it is, only much more so), *definitely* no one was happy there. my better half is a USAFA grad and apart from the odd moments of hilarity, he detested the place. he's glad to be a *graduate*, but not glad that he was ever there, necessarily.

my favorite west point motto: "150 years of tradition unimpeded by progress."

oh, and hi, guy. i think you posted on throwingstardna's site or something. or maybe pouk23's. i found you one of those. i guess you can see my military connection :) you seem very thoughtful.

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