((Rails))

[lilith_rta]

Alright, now from our discussion of features, I was reminded of Rails. Now  rubyonrails.org/ Good! Storyline on rails… bad.

I’m sure someone just asked: “what do you mean by on rails?”

Comments

[emma_rta]

Most of the time, and especially in the larger story arc, I think that organic storytelling is wonderful and the best way to go.

There are, however, certain situations where a defined outcome may be necessary. I was propco elsemu to a GC kingdom, and had to find a way to get my character from Princess to Queen. Now, I could've just said, *poof* I'm Queen (and made up an excuse), but I made a big effort to draw the players in my prop into the plot and make them a part of it, even though the outcome was defined.

Were they railroaded? Yes, unfortunately. Had I been a better propco, maybe I would've found a better way to do it. I was up front, though, about the predetermined outcome. It made it really frustrating when a player who was only peripherally involved got angry about not being able to change the outcome, even after OOC apologies and further explanations.

[lilith_rta]

See, I see that alright. Working in tight constraints usually isn't the problem, it is when you take -all- options from your players that their input doesn't matter.

Don't get me wrong, when I ran games at D*Con I had people working in tight constraints to an end goal. The goal didnt' change, merely the ways that they got there.

Thanks.

[baksi_rta]

If I feel I'm on rails in a game, a plot, a play area, and there is no way off, and nothing I do can make a damn bit of difference, I walk away. I have better things to do....like fold laundry, clean bathrooms, and sleep

[benedict_rta]

It does rather depend on the scene. For plots, I don't tend to use rails. For scenes where the objective is to beat the enemy, I might give orders that lead the PCs up to the point where they are going to take on the enemy

[lilith_rta]

Well said. And I agree that you can have rails to a point. It is that feeling of being meaningless that gets people.

Course, I've yet to see one of your plots that doesn't have people go "ooo, can I do this?" And you're sweet enough to pose my bad guys responses... which is totally awesome.

[kynan_r2a]

Part of the problem here is trying to figure out what makes a good story, as opposed to what makes good play

[standing_dragon]

..... hmmm.

This part:

If you look at most "action-oriented" stories, the premise is generally that some big bad attacks the good guys, and wins each battle, the heroes perhaps managing at best some small vestige of complete defeat, until the end.

But maintaining a plot line like this is hard, because there is a fair amount of railroading necessary. But the alternative can also get unsatisfying over time, as the heroes roll over the opposition. No good plot ever survives the efforts of some dedicated players :)
The last is utterly correct - but the rest is why there is a conflict resolution mechanic. Dice

[kynan_r2a]

Well, remember, I said, "Part of the problem here is trying to figure out what makes a good story, as opposed to what makes good play." "Stories" are written--the ultimate in railroading. When it's done rather obviously, the answer to "why did that character do X?" is "Because the plot demanded it." But you know, sometimes that's OK too

[standing_dragon]

I prefer cooperative storytelling /combined/ with simulated conflict

[kynan_r2a]

Another point I just wanted to get across.

I agree that too strict railroading is bad for play. But conversely, too loose is as well, for me at least. If my choices don't matter to the plot--if I can do something, anything, no matter what--and still advance, I get a hollow feeling about it, and lose interest, fast. Perhaps this is because I have a puzzle-solving style of play, so if the puzzle leads me from A to B without fail or thought, then it's not really a puzzle.

As I think about it more, perhaps this is just a different kind of railroading. When I think of the term, I first think of stories where I beat my head against a wall and get nowhere. However, the second that I mentioned above is the case where those walls are made of rice paper, and no matter which direction I go, I get through. Both are equally undesirable.

[lilith_rta]

I would agree. You have to find the perfect balance. Sometimes, when you're a new GM or storyteller tell, it is hard to find your groove right out of the gate. You have ups and downs, just like that of a Tabletop game

[lilith_rta]

Alas, we will have to hit up standing to re-post his dissertation on Rails and Mushes. He's an eloquent way of laying it out there.