well, let's face it: no matter what we do or what/what amount of ethics we try to live by - we are only human. being human means we are prone to lash out when uncomfortable or when we see something negative that we don't like.
every witch i know has dealt with her share of trolls - people who are not involved in the Craft are often ignorant in both senses of the word: unlearned, and (therefore) stupid about it/against it. we kind of live with fierce attitudes, probably because most of us are tired of dealing with people who don't understand, abuse the Craft, etc.
if i'm not making sense, consider this: the wiccan rede is only a guideline, and many people realize that while it says to harm none, harming is a part of nature... and Wiccans are supposed to embrace both the dark and light sides of nature and everything in it. bigger animals eat smaller ones to survive, without pain there is no pleasure... so on. so sometimes, it is necessary and just to do harm to another - ESPECIALLY if they mean harm to you.
oh, and personally... when someone harms me, i either get over it with lightening speed because that's the type of person i am (resilient) and sometimes prefer to let the Universe do its work... or i will act out in defense. that could either mean: using my own words to tell them about themselves which usually does enough damage to get them to at least leave me alone, or, perform some type of defensive magick, or cast a spell to be rid of them and the feelings i have over them harming me, or i will use a mirror and a picture of them to send the feelings i am feeling back to them so that they feel remorseful which is usually enough to drive someone mad (at least for a little bit). but that's just me...
I don't believe that at all. I don't believe in light and dark in a sense and I don't believe in lashing out at people just because they lash out at you. In bigger being attacked aspects in life (like in order to survive) I can understand fighting back. But when people are just trying to cause chaos why would I give them exactly what they wanted? Where is the room to grow and learn from each other if we're all throwing rocks at each other?
Harm none to me means harm none when it is logical to do so. The point I was making was why would you send the negativity back when you know it will only harm yourself in the end?
to me, being Wiccan is being able to, for lack of a better word, assume power that would normally be given to an all-powerful deity - such as how Christians think only God has the power of God. by assuming it, you can make what you want to happen... happen
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Me personally, I don't identify as Wiccan, and don't follow the Wiccan Rede. =P I have my own guide of sorts...which basically means my gut. Even though I really like the Norse Rede of Honor. That's a beautiful piece right there.
But anyway, I've never sent bad energy back or done anything magically that could hurt anyone. I don't think I'm incapable of it. If the right circumstances were applied I'm sure I would be, but it'd just be hella hard to get to me that badly. It screams "unfair" to me.
I'm not afraid that whatever I send out could come back to me. I don't do those things because I seriously just don't want to hurt anyone else. It seems pointless.
Of course in day to day moment to moment situations I'm hotheaded and such. I don't stop to think then. Online I actually stop and think because thinking of and typing a response takes more thought than just cranking things out face to face. =P
i like the idea behind the Wiccan Rede - and i think it should mean the most to individuals just being introduced to Wicca. but after a little while of actual pratice and hard studying, one should start to realize that there are indeed times when you may have to harm someone else, though it is rarely, if ever, done unjustly.
i like the ethics of Hellenic Reconstructionism - that doing harm is just as necessary as being nice. know yourself is a rule in it... and knowing yourself includes knowing that you are only human, and like i said to the OP, humans are prone to act in defense which can mean causing harm in return.
i agree with you that one should not fear things coming back in return. in our lives, whether we chose to acknowledge it then, we've already faced karma for the wrongs we've done. did we fear it then? we survived through it, right? and we learned.
i like the idea behind the Wiccan Rede - and i think it should mean the most to individuals just being introduced to Wicca. but after a little while of actual pratice and hard studying, one should start to realize that there are indeed times when you may have to harm someone else, though it is rarely, if ever, done unjustly
I know sometimes you've just gotta bite and say "Alright, listen asshat, *boom*" from time to time. I'm more likely to fight back when someone messes with the people I care about than when they're attacking me personally. And by fighting, I mean using this *points at mouth*.
I just read a bit on those ethics earlier today, actually. I didn't like them. They felt harsh.
words are probably the most powerful defense, in most cases. i've brought people to tears, both joyful and sorrowful, just by speaking. wisdom from one can create powerful impacts on another. a bully can be broken with the right words... which stem from simply analyzing said bully and bullies in general, and an understanding of why bullies are how they are. gotta know what to say and how to say it.
the ethics aren't so bad, but i guess it does depend on the person and their disposition.
I'm no Wiccan and don't believe in karma, so I have no qualms about defending myself or my space, as I don't expect karma to do it for me. I'd actually rather take the responsibility for that myself
( ... )
I think that giving someone more reliable information is probably the best way to go about it. If they are totally unwilling to accept that information, well thats really on them and theres nothing to be done about it.
And I do understand that not everyone in these communities are Wiccan. Defending yourself and your space is a good thing.
It's the lashing out against the instigator and causing a bigger mess that bothers me.
I completely agree. tha'ts why i stopped posting on Wiccan, becuase every time i did, some one found something utterly wrong with what i posted and just made me feel like crap about it.
I'm Wiccan, and I believe in karma and the Rede. But I'm not going to go out of my way to avoid unpleasant people(I would run out of places to go). I'm not going to step back and wait for the universe to take care of a problem while people walk all over me. I'm going to stand up for myself. I was taught that the Gods help those who help themselves.
I didn't mean at all that you shouldn't stand your ground or stand up for yourself. What I was referencing was when people just tear others apart over something that could have been handled more productively. considering what these online communities are here for in the first place.
i definitely do understand where you're coming from - i remember a year ago when i posted to a few nonwiccan and wiccan communities how i felt about the views on neo-pagans from the ones who took part in the ancient religion - and got nasty responses. but i'm woman enough to admit that the way i worded it was very, very wrong and offensive. i was asking why people disliked neo-pagans and their initiation processes in an offensive "i dislike YOU" manner. and thusly, got a textual lashing from most in the community. and there were a slim few willing to educate me.
and honestly, you shouldn't fear conflict. it happens, all the time. just post an entry, as humble as possible. but also be ready for constrasting views and different opinions - but more often than not, SOMEONE in the community understands where you're coming from or has the exact same question/issue. and 9 times out of 10, you are enlightened from the responses.
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every witch i know has dealt with her share of trolls - people who are not involved in the Craft are often ignorant in both senses of the word: unlearned, and (therefore) stupid about it/against it. we kind of live with fierce attitudes, probably because most of us are tired of dealing with people who don't understand, abuse the Craft, etc.
if i'm not making sense, consider this: the wiccan rede is only a guideline, and many people realize that while it says to harm none, harming is a part of nature... and Wiccans are supposed to embrace both the dark and light sides of nature and everything in it. bigger animals eat smaller ones to survive, without pain there is no pleasure... so on. so sometimes, it is necessary and just to do harm to another - ESPECIALLY if they mean harm to you.
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Harm none to me means harm none when it is logical to do so. The point I was making was why would you send the negativity back when you know it will only harm yourself in the end?
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But anyway, I've never sent bad energy back or done anything magically that could hurt anyone. I don't think I'm incapable of it. If the right circumstances were applied I'm sure I would be, but it'd just be hella hard to get to me that badly. It screams "unfair" to me.
I'm not afraid that whatever I send out could come back to me. I don't do those things because I seriously just don't want to hurt anyone else. It seems pointless.
Of course in day to day moment to moment situations I'm hotheaded and such. I don't stop to think then. Online I actually stop and think because thinking of and typing a response takes more thought than just cranking things out face to face. =P
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i like the ethics of Hellenic Reconstructionism - that doing harm is just as necessary as being nice. know yourself is a rule in it... and knowing yourself includes knowing that you are only human, and like i said to the OP, humans are prone to act in defense which can mean causing harm in return.
i agree with you that one should not fear things coming back in return. in our lives, whether we chose to acknowledge it then, we've already faced karma for the wrongs we've done. did we fear it then? we survived through it, right? and we learned.
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I know sometimes you've just gotta bite and say "Alright, listen asshat, *boom*" from time to time. I'm more likely to fight back when someone messes with the people I care about than when they're attacking me personally. And by fighting, I mean using this *points at mouth*.
I just read a bit on those ethics earlier today, actually. I didn't like them. They felt harsh.
Then again I'm a softy that tries to be badass.
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the ethics aren't so bad, but i guess it does depend on the person and their disposition.
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And I do understand that not everyone in these communities are Wiccan. Defending yourself and your space is a good thing.
It's the lashing out against the instigator and causing a bigger mess that bothers me.
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and honestly, you shouldn't fear conflict. it happens, all the time. just post an entry, as humble as possible. but also be ready for constrasting views and different opinions - but more often than not, SOMEONE in the community understands where you're coming from or has the exact same question/issue. and 9 times out of 10, you are enlightened from the responses.
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