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http://www.arena.net/blog/kristen-perry-on-designing-and-redesigning-the-sylvari
BY KRISTEN PERRY AUGUST 8TH, 2011
Every race in Guild Wars 2 started with a simplified description-a way to describe the essence of the people in a sentence or less. The sylvari description was pared down to just three words: noble, beautiful, plant. In the past, our design iterations would always lean towards one or two of these descriptors, but in the end we really wanted to have a race that would represent all three characteristics clearly. I began to develop an alternate version of the race on my own at night, while preparing for our debut in gamescom 2010 by day.
I knew it was ultimately important to find the right balance between the beauty of the visuals and the mystic plant nature of the lore, but we also wanted to design a race that was unique to the Guild Wars world. So I began researching the perceptions and expectations surrounding the idea of plant people.
Petal to the Mettle
There’s one big root to the design direction of the sylvari that I hold most dear: it all must stem from anatomy. However, researching this design proved to be very tricky. It seemed that most images of plant people fell into one of two categories: painted humans with leaf accessories or outright plant monsters. The elf concept was most prevalent, featuring flora jewelry and clothing. They may have sported leaf coiffures, but they were little more than humans with an affinity for nature.
Next, I entered into dryad territory, where most of the examples paint various leaves or bark textures onto the skin to infuse plant-like detail. For me, this felt like stage makeup and didn’t really bring forth the potential of a plant race.
At the far end of the plant spectrum were all of the ents and forest monsters, composed of many root, leaf, and bulb materials that merge together to create a humanoid form. Overall, this direction is too far as it pulls away from the beautiful humanoid we wanted.
While researching the distance between dryad and plant creature, I found the results were still very separated; most often you’d have a supermodel-beautiful girl with literal winding plant vines and leaves coiling around her. The plant side stayed plant while the human side stayed human, and there was no true marriage of the materials or the anatomy. Strip any of that stuff off the girl and it’s plain to see that she’s just wearing very planty parts. It wasn’t even skin deep.
The sylvari are a race of true plant people. They are described in our lore as a noble, attractive humanoid plant race, so it became clear that what I needed to design first was their concept of anatomy. This definition lead me to first consider wrapping vines and stems to follow human musculature. However, I quickly realized that this was going to have a couple of unwanted effects: one, the body looked too sci-fi, like cyborg body suits; and two, it made them look as if their skin had been peeled off. It was creepy. This extreme concept made it obvious that whatever anatomy I created would have to be attractive and may have to bend the fantasy rules of evolution, if there truly are any such mandates.
The Idea: It Arose by Any Other Name…
The solution was to create an illusion of anatomy. The figure was not formed from a human with leaves on top of it, but rather a human shape made from grown plant parts. This originates from specific growth sockets. The primary growth socket starts at the small of the back, where a tail might grow. Like many fruits and vegetables, there are two ends: the main stem and the opposing divot (which makes a really good belly button). Graceful leaves sprout from the growth socket, curving around and through the body to simulate the desired musculature. I used stems and broad leaves to articulate the carpal tendons and the flesh of the lower arms. Hosta leaves spiral out at the shoulders in a teardrop shape to form the deltoid “muscles,” while branches spring from the clavicles. Scientific anatomy turned out to be creepy, but garden-variety fantasy anatomy was just what was needed.
The really engaging part of the design process was inventing ways to break up the structures to further the illusion. The faces in particular allowed for the most creativity, and I found myself wanting to see just how far I could push the design before it became too removed from beauty. Ideally, the sylvari race will always have a wide range of beauty types, from nearly human to lovely creature, but there is a point beyond which they just no longer resemble player characters.
The sylvari have a unique freedom in anatomy. If you tried to make a human actor into a sylvari, between makeup and prosthetic appliances, you’d probably have a pretty good result. But under the makeup, the human skeletal structure would remain a barrier. The sylvari are not limited by the planes of a human skull; you can shape the jaw with layered vines, or create the illusion of a face by pressing shards of bark together vertically, and splitting the face in two. The brow can simply be a collection of leaves and it is the patterning alone that defines the eyebrow shape, much like the camouflage of a butterfly. Add to this freedom the myriad plant varieties and there are a vast number of options to explore.
Dressing Vine for Any Occasion
As the sylvari body is so entwined with anatomy, I saw no reason to leave out their clothing. Explaining the difference of a plant outfit to folks was a bit of a challenge because there seemed to be some rather deep rooted associations. Here’s the gist… the image below shows a simple sun dress, complete with belt wrap and coordinating necklace. If you asked a random person to envision that as a plant outfit, they will probably change the chain of the necklace to a vine, and augment the dress to include more leaf shapes and texture. But this is merely surface texture and creates only a costume.
To fully describe the anatomy of clothing, you have to let it grow as it would in nature. Many plants have a growth socket where the leaves arc out from a common point of origin, spiraling gracefully. To translate the sun dress into this philosophy, I would pick one main growth point and arc the pieces from there. The necklace can also be naturally translated, but instead of cutting it loose and tying it like a costume, it too receives a growth point and suspends delicately around the neck.
We have some old armor assets that we’re retrofitting to the new design and this will be done by adding stems and some growth points where possible. The design philosophy, in a nutshell, is to follow nature’s rules of growth and employ stems liberally. If the design structure really calls for tighter layering, don’t worry. Treat the pieces as one big stem and work from there. There’s a reason why arms and legs are called “limbs.”
Every Rose Has its Thorn
For those of you wanting a more rugged character, fear not-I’ve cultivated designs for you, too! There has been much debate about tying the seasons into the sylvari character’s storyline. We decided we didn’t want to force an aesthetic on anyone, so we’re leaving the choice open. Currently I’m making sure everyone has summer and winter body skins. The summer skin, as you’ve seen, is very lush and leafy with a lot of different types of plant details making up the anatomy. But what about bark textures and shard edges? For this effect we will have a winter skin available which shows more bramble tendons, dried leaves, bark trunks, and gnarled roots woven throughout the body.
What of spring and autumn? Well, really, if you dye the summer skin yellow-green, orange, or brown, you really have the other two seasons covered. The winter skin can always double as fall skin depending on how you accessorize. More body skins *might* come down the line, but I really wanted to ensure that players who wanted pretty and those who wanted rugged can both have a skin that they can customize as they see fit.
Down the Garden Path
As we move forward with the sylvari design, there will be many more refreshing new shapes and details to choose from. I have more faces planned and there will be more hair designs with branches and flowers. Male and female sylvari will get a full selection of ears, and perhaps some leaf patterns overlaying the skins like tattoos, along with bioluminescent markings.
I’ve put a lot of passion and effort into developing this race, and many folks have given their excellent talents bringing their elements to life. We’ve dug down to the sylvari cultural roots and branched out into a new vision, growing from the seeds of their racial identity. Some thought we were barking mad to redesign a race this far into development, but we had the “stamena” to stick to our ideals and allow it to blossom. For now, let me leaf you with the hope that you’re as excited about the sylvari race as I am!
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Fion
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedSick11
agreed! Old Caithe doesnt look like anything near plant ppl but more like human wearing leaves. the new improve Caithe bring out the Sylvari's true character. GOOD JOB, Kristen.
I'm loving that the new Sylvari aren't just humans or elves wearing plant clothing and flowery hair but actually look like plants that 'grew' into human/elf-like shapes. That they have stems that they grew out of, that their 'cloths' aren't outfits as much as parts of themselves that grew into those shapes. It's so much more wonderful than 'human wearing plant-like clothing' ever could have been.
Qing Guang
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St. Louis
I think the only thing more I could ask for is sylvari with flowers and pods and such. That would be a really good way to distinguish Spring and Autumn sylvari - Spring ones could be bright and blooming and riotously colorful, while Autumn ones could have warmer colors and some seedpod/fruit things going on. (I admit I just really want to see a Spring sylvari warrior with giant tropical flowers blooming out of her head and wielding a big hammer, for the sheer ridiculousness of it all)
another
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Location: Location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dratyan
One thing hasn't changed with the new design: If I eventually create a Sylvari, it'll definitely be a female. It's better to be in the "cute" category than the male's "weak and weird".
Personally, I hope that both genders can achieve any of these adjectives: cute, weak, weird, rugged, strong, badass, cool.
ANet seem to have a habit of showing off very gender-conforming examples of their more humanoid races, which makes me worry that going for gender-bending looks for those races will be difficult, if not impossible. On one hand, blog posts and concept art show an awful lot of heavily gender-conforming characters; on the other, shakycam demo videos provide glimpses of androgynous armour and chubby females. And they did avoid Humanoid Female Animal design with the female charr. So we'll see.
(I'm not trying to start an argument; I know many folks prefer their females cute and boobalicious and their males tough and beefy. And that each race aims for a particular aesthetic. Gender blurring is just important to me personally, and I'd really, really like to see it as a viable option in this game. Especially with the sylvari, for whom I think androgyny would work very well. )
Arienai
Pale Tree Seedling
Join Date: May 2011
OH MY GOD !!! The sylvari redesign just blew my mind away.
Now I can really feel it, they are plants with a humanoid shape instead of humans/elf with plants feature. It's in their core beings !
I want to know mooooore.
What are their inside made of ?!
Are they poisonous ?!
They are the fruits of the Pale Tree, right ? Can they become a source of food for the other races ?!
If you cut their limbs, will they regrow ?
What does their blood taste like ?
How do they smell ?
Can you make medicine with their clothes ?
Can mushroom sprout on them (in case of a disease for exemple) ?
etc... etc....
I'm sorry Kristen Perry, but I want the lore people to dissect them to know absolutely everything now
My excitement for this race cannot be stopped now
Originally Posted by ImraJamilaAlshams
First of all I love the design! Really couldn't be any more perfect. I'm not the biggest fantasy fan, but the fact that you were imaginative enough to invent a new type of being instead of going the elf+swamp thing route is pretty awesome, well done!
But on the whole leaves grow to make muscle, I did have a question: Where does Sylvari strength come from? Are there layers and layers of tightly woven leaves to make up the arms? If there's just leaves on top with stems underneath a Sylvari could be cut/injured pretty easily. Or is there a very strong wood making up all of the limbs and the leaves grow from an inner tree with the leaves growing on top to cover it and look humanoid? Basically, what does a Sylvari look like under the skin?
Sorry if this has been asked already (didn't read the whole thread), I didn't see a dev response to this question so I figured if it has been asked it at least hasn't been answered yet.
Kairo
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
I honestly can't wait to see a video of the Grove and see the sylvari's movements/mannerisms...I want to see how their eyes move! I almost want them to be very twitchy...I mean the eyeball or whatever as if they are continuously changing focus from one thing to another. I think it'd be a lil cool way to show that the sylvari are curious to fault, constantly observing, even in the middle of a convo
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The Sylvari Soul - Angel McCoy on Writing the Sylvari
BY ANGEL MCCOY AUGUST 9TH, 2011 more on: lore and storyracessylvarisylvari week
My name is Angel Leigh McCoy, and I’m one of several writers on the Guild Wars 2 design team. We’ve been molding Tyria into a living, breathing world, and I’m here to share some audio clips of in-game dialogue and give you some insight into the sylvari, Tyria’s newest race.
Sylvari Basics
All the races of Guild Wars 2 are fun to write, but sylvari rank in the top three for me. I love how their virtue blends with their innocence and then contrasts with the darkness of the world surrounding them. This disparity illuminates the sacrifices, gallantry, and tragedies of Tyria’s war with the dragons.
Remarkably, the sylvari race didn’t come into existence until 25 years ago (in game years) when the twelve firstborn awoke. Since then, new sylvari have continued to awaken on a regular basis, their numbers growing as time advances.
Sylvari arrive in the world fully grown. They emerge from pods that grow on the Pale Tree: a magical, sentient tree with its roots deep in Tyria and its branches in the Dream. They leave the Dream-a mystical place where sylvari memories are collected-and incubate in their pods, then emerge into the world. They bring with them a spectator’s understanding of how the world works, having witnessed aspects of it while in the Dream. Their first few days in the world are critical, and they’re met by mentors and other newly awakened who help them find their way.
In this series of scenes, a male sylvari attempts to explain his awakening to a female norn. Listen in:
Sylvari BirthPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Designing Sylvari from Scratch
The sylvari have evolved a great deal over the years. When first designed, they looked like gnarled, wooden figures. The next concept art iteration resembled children. We didn’t want child warriors going into battle, so we matured their look. Sylvari were also telepathic in the early days, but we quickly realized how much of a game-mechanic and story nightmare that would be, so we trimmed back their telepathy, making it empathy instead. It suited them better.
The writing team, led by Bobby Stein, along with world designers Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb, spent many hours discussing the sylvari, what their lives would be like, and how they would act. We took those discussions and molded the everyday sylvari that you pass in the streets of Divinity’s Reach or elsewhere in the world.
Some of the questions we asked ourselves included:
What are the first few weeks of a sylvari’s life like?
The first few weeks are an exercise in overcoming disorientation. Fortunately, newly awakened sylvari have a lot of help adjusting.
Sylvari don’t have brothers, sisters, parents, or any other familial connections. How does this affect how they bond with others?
They get to choose their families! The honorable sylvari can be extremely loyal once a bond has been created with another being. Sylvari also have strong racial attachments, not just because of the empathic links that connect them, but because only other members of their own race can understand what it’s like to be sylvari. These ties may be strengthened by shared experience or ultimately weakened, like distant cousins you only see on holidays.
Do sylvari have romantic relationships?
Sylvari fall in and out of love, just like other races do. They have a romanticized view of devotion, and they’re curious about passion in all its forms. There are male and female sylvari, but none has ever produced a child as other races do. Because of this, traditional human-style gender roles have no meaning to sylvari, either in their society or in their romantic relationships. Often, a sylvari’s ardor is expressed with courtly zeal-emotional, empathic, personal-and is not necessarily defined by gender.
Are sylvari naive?
Sylvari may be naive when they first leave the pod, but they don’t stay that way for long. They learn their lessons well, especially if the lessons come with lumps, thumps, or broken hearts.
Since they awaken fully grown, do they have an understanding of what it’s like to be a child?
No. They have never been children. Those small beings-miniature versions of the adults-who are so well protected, are alien to sylvari. Many are terrified at the thought of being born so vulnerable.
As a group, we pondered these questions and many more until we came up with a race that felt fleshed out. We then tried different approaches to sylvari dialogue. During this process, we identified several personality keystones that defined our sylvari voice.
Sylvari Keystone #1: Honor
A sylvari’s honor gives her a sense of propriety that the youth of other races do not have. In many ways, they are like the Arthurian knights (without the gender bias). They take their duties seriously, and they live by a personal code. Their justice system involves duels, and when duels no longer satisfy, then the wisdom of an elder sylvari prevails. While evil sylvari do exist, most stand up for what is right, and even those who succumb to nightmare have a hatred for the Elder Dragon Zhaitan and the horrors of Orr. Listen in:
Love LostPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #2: Curiosity
The sylvari race is less than 25 years old, and most sylvari are younger than 20. When they come into the world, they have already seen much via the Dream, but they have experienced none of it themselves. For this reason, a sylvari may express surprise, joy, and even awe at the sight of something that most of Tyria’s citizens would consider mundane.
However, sylvari are not childlike creatures who see a miracle in every blade of grass. They have an active sense of wonder but are not naive. They were born in a world at war and their own home, the Grove, suffers constant assault. They learn quickly that people deceive, that death is painful, and that evil exists. Despite this, they’re driven to go out into the world, to help others, to right wrongs, and perhaps, one day, to banish evil in all its forms. Listen in:
Contemplating the DetailsPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #3: Empathy
As progeny of the Pale Tree, sylvari have a special connection with plants. They can often empathize with flora, even possessing certain magical abilities that allow them to grow plants into useful items such as walls, armor, and weaponry.
Being a form of sentient plant life, they can sometimes feel another sylvari’s emotions if the emotion is strong enough. They don’t get any information other than the feeling itself, but it’s something that connects all sylvari and gives them a sense of belonging. Listen in:
Citizens RoamingPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #4: The Dream
Sylvari exist in the Dream of Dreams prior to awakening. While in this womb, they draw nourishment from their mother, the Pale Tree, and along with that nourishment, they receive knowledge of the world. The Pale Tree collects her knowledge from awakened sylvari. She gathers memories of their experiences like a mystical net collecting leaves from a stream. The more intense or emotional an experience, the more likely the memory of it will reach the Pale Tree’s consciousness and eventually seep into the Dream where unawakened sylvari may witness it. Powerful as this is, the Pale Tree doesn’t see every moment of every sylvari life, and she is not omniscient.
Furthermore, not all sylvari see the same Dream visions, so everyone awakens with a unique foundation of worldly knowledge. The Dream may reveal clues that foretell the sylvari’s profession and talents. It may reveal historical events that will impact the sylvari’s personality and future choices. It may reveal knowledge of everyday life, both in sylvari society and among other races. They see many things about Tyria and are thus ready to begin living when they awaken fully grown and leave the Pale Tree.
A small percentage of awakened sylvari eventually receive a calling to the Wyld Hunt. Their first hints of this may have appeared in the Dream prior to their awakening, though few would recognize it as such. A sylvari called to the Wyld Hunt has an especially important purpose and is dubbed a Wyld Hunt valiant. Great responsibility comes with the Wyld Hunt, as does great opportunity. Most sylvari take this so seriously that they would die in service to this quest. Each sylvari’s Wyld Hunt is unique. Listen in:
Arching BoughsPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #5: Philosophy
When the first sylvari awakened at the base of the Pale Tree, they found a stone tablet-the Ventari Tablet-carved with seven tenets to live by. It was written by Ventari, a wise centaur who lived hundreds of years before the first sylvari was born. The sylvari have embraced these tenets as one would embrace the words of a prophet. They discuss their meanings and have deep philosophical exchanges about the nature of life, love, and honor. Listen in:
MentoringPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Diversity
The sylvari have personalities built of complex emotions, quirks, and goals. They have quickly become just as complicated and nuanced as our other races. You won’t find anything cookie-cutter or cardboard about any of them, and our in-game dialogue gives us the chance to express the sylvari in all their colors, shapes, and sizes.
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Regina Buenaobra
ArenaNet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
edit 2: I love that their relationships are regardless of gender. As a totally new and plant-based race, it is only sensible their love would be for love, not for tradition or function (since to them there is no use in function, they can't reproduce anyway).
I just want to make a related comment. One of our fans was curious about Caithe, Faolain, and what the nature of the relationship is between them. Here's Ree's answer (spoilers for Edge of Destiny!):
Quote:
Hello, all!
Regina’s forwarded to me a question from a player, and I wanted to take a minute from scribbling lore to answer. The question was, ‘What is the relationship between Caithe and Faolain?’
The sylvari attitude toward gender is somewhat unusual in Tyria. Yes, sylvari are born physically male or female, but they do not sexually reproduce. Therefore, pairings of lovers are not for the purpose of creating children. Sylvari pairings might be heterosexual or homosexual, and they make no distinction between the two.
To a sylvari, love is about inspiration. Physical touch, ardor, and sensuality are beautiful things, but what the heart feels, what gives joy to the spirit - these are most important, and that has nothing at all to do with the physical form. Love is not bound by gender. It does not ignore the pairing of hearts simply because the bodies are alike. Indeed, the sylvari feel free to love (and love openly) regardless of the physical qualities of their beloved. It would surprise them to hear that someone of any race felt differently. They would say that love is too precious to be passed over simply because someone’s eyes are blue, their hair is dark, or because they are of the same sex.
Faolain and Caithe are two of the Firstborn, the twelve sylvari that stepped from the Pale Tree at the very beginning. While others of the Firstborn chose to stay and tend the tree, or to explore only the forest that surrounded them, Caithe and Faolain dared to see the world. They traveled Tyria, relying on one another, respecting each other’s skills - Caithe, the deadly martial fighter; Faolain, with her powerful sorcery. Yes, they fell very deeply in love, and yes, that love was both inspirational and tangible.
When Faolain fell to Nightmare - and that is another story - Caithe was beside her. But at the moment Faolain chose to move forward and embrace darkness, Caithe stepped away. It was a single action, but the divide between them is vast. Unless Caithe joins the Nightmare Court, they will forever be parted, no matter how strong their love for one another. Faolain returns, time and time again, seeking to draw her lover back to her side, but each time, Caithe refuses and remains standing at Nightmare’s edge. She cannot bring herself to truly leave Faolain; she cannot join her.
Their story is the classic tragedy of star-crossed lovers. It has nothing to do with the fact that both are identifiably female. It has nothing to do with ‘gender.’
It has to do with love.
“Your heart belongs to me.” - Faolain, to Caithe (Edge of Destiny)
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Kailis
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Droknar's Forge
I like the voices. This article also got me to notice that Sylvari would be an easy race to eliminate >_>. Sneak some fire elementalists in, burn down the pale tree, and finish off whats left of them. With no reproductive capability, they'd be screwed.
One other thing though:
Quote:
Their justice system involves duels, and when duels no longer satisfy, then the wisdom of an elder sylvari prevails.
Possible that dueling will make it in as a regular feature? Or has this been confirmed/denied already?
jazilla
Seraph Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thinning Kodan Populations
I listened to the clips at first with my eyes closed. The British accents don't sound earthy enough for lack of a better term. A thick Irish accent would feel more organic. For example, I knew that was a Norn female the moment I heard her voice. The Sylvari females made me feel like my girlfriend was making me watch Sense and Sensibility and they were drinking tea and eating scones with frilly lace and china. Just my two cents I guess. If those voices evoke a plant-like race to anybody else, that's cool. They just don't feel organic enough to me.
Elder III
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ohio
Sylvari sound a little different that I had personally imagined. A little more Morgan Freeman and a little less thin, reedy plant people voice. Not that they sounded bad by any means, just different than expected. The additional information and lore clarification was very welcome of course.
Noah
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The Grove
When it comes to their sexual encounters, look at it this way.
Most couples do not have sexual intercourse due to the fact that they want children. They do it because the act itself is pleasurable. So reproduction is not a requirement for sex.
Sylvari feel pain when they're harmed, they can feel the warmth of the sun on their skin.. therefore they can feel. They have some sense of a nervous system. Why would these creatures only be able to feel pain? The fact that they can feel pleasure, and that they are so curious by nature, is reason enough for them to have sexual intercourse. The same reason most teenagers go out and have sex, not because they want children, but because they are curious about the pleasure it provides.
And this isn't catering to any perverted fantasy. It's simply answering an anatomical question about a new, mostly mysterious, race. Can they have sex? Yes. Can they reproduce sexually? No. Why do they have sex? They're curious about everything, even mature matter like sexual pleasure.
If people see some sick fantasy in all of this, that is a personal issue and not something that the more mature Guild Wars fans are going to have to deal with. By the way, Norn, Humans, Asura, Char... they all have sex too.. so sorry that you're so bothered by this fact. :3
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Regina Buenaobra
ArenaNet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by alzemu
I'll be honest and say sylvari enjoying bodily pleasure like that makes me quite irritated since it seems like Anet is just catering to sexual fantasies instead of creating a logical and believable (unique) race that could represent GW2 for futures to come....
I suspect that people who are thinking so deeply about how the sylvaris' bits work did not spend the same amount of time obsessing about how or why our other sentient playable races such as the humans or the charr or the asura "do it" or what they feel when they get intimate with partners.
Sylvari feel pain if you cut them. They have nerves and stuff. They feel things. So do the other races.
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Silveria
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Westeros
As I listened, I expected the accent to cause at least some sort of noticeable division in the community, but I quite like the turnout. It wasn't what I expected - for a long time, I had imagined the sylvari to sound more high-pitched, more curious. As I think on it now, especially after the redesign, such qualities are not entirely fitting. The two principles, fused, create an illusion of childhood that clearly is not the design intent, evident in both the scrapping of the childlike conceptualization of the race and what we've read today. Yes, I agree that there should a tinge of curiosity in their tone, however, there is a fine line between curiosity and naiveté. Giving them a slightly deeper, more noble accent can prevent such an immediate inference, as with higher pitched voices, we, and other races within the game, would inevitably come to think of the sylvari as children.
Yojimaru
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Aug 2009
Hrm, the way that Ree says that the Sylvari approach to gender is unusual in Tyria makes me think the other races are much like us in regards to relationships that stray out of the culturally accepted "norms". Ah well, nothing I'm not used to already.
The article was a very interesting read, but some of the voices struck me as sounding too "old". It's not really easy to explain... the accent doesn't bother me though.
Also, could we PLEASE stop using gender to refer to ones individual sex? All it's doing in breeding confusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by izari
I find that odd, considering Caithe noted to Logan that human's means of reproduction was "strange", or whatever it was she said. I was under the impression she meant the actual act..
But then that wouldn't make sense.
She was referring to the birthing process I believe, which is indeed very foreign to Sylvari.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
I suspect that people who are thinking so deeply about how the sylvaris' bits work did not spend the same amount of time obsessing about how or why our other sentient playable races such as the humans or the charr or the asura "do it" or what they feel when they get intimate with partners.
Actually, I have found myself wondering about the "procedure" of the Charr. For us, the act is usually something that is very private, but since the Charr live largely military lives which usually don't afford much in the way of privacy it makes me wonder if Charr society has set aside special places for it, or are they a race of exhibitionists and thus don't mind doing it in the barracks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriggerSad
Ok, I just feel like this question really needs some thought and an answer.
Here's what we do know:
Can sylvari have sex? Yes.
Can they reproduce through sex? No.
Here's what I can't imagine and an confused with:
Then biologically speaking, what do they produce when having sex? By this I mean, what does a sylvari's sexual organs produce if not any sort of product used in the reproductive system?
.....Nectar? Ohohohohoho!
Gmr Leon
Backstage Worker.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Durmand Priory
Seeing as the sylvari sex discussion is dragging on, I'll toss in my two cents here. The Pale Tree, somehow, has developed a sort of maternal persona for the sylvari race, and as an apparently kindhearted, benevolent mother figure, she has given the sylvari as much as she can to help them experience everything in the world. She's given them eyes to see, ears to hear, noses to smell, legs to walk, feet to feel the ground, hands to touch and grasp, arms to embrace, and sexual organs to explore even that part of life. She gave them even what they did not need, to permit them to experience all that life has to offer.
You may decide if that sounds like a decent enough explanation for yourself, whether or not that is the case I do not know, but I'd like to think the Pale Tree wouldn't have any qualms about giving her children reproductive organs to allow them to explore even that part of life. Regardless of whether they are functional or not.
another
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Location: Location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelty
The first quote got me thinking. The Sylvari dude describes birth "...like falling from a great height, all the way down to the hard ground. Not all survive the fall."
I wonder if he was being literal or maybe he was speaking figuratively. The fall representing each sylvari's personal choice between ventari and the nightmare. The ground represents the real physical world. Not all survive refering to those who choose the nightmare.
That's a good way of thinking about it. I had assumed he was being literal, and just chuckled at his use of the word "like". But I think you may have hit upon what he was getting at. He may also have been describing the period immediately following birth, when sylvari have to adjust to life outside the dream.
Lunkhead
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wymsical
Agreed! Every glimpse we get of the world makes me more and more eager to just go waltzing off into it to see every little corner that there is. There's so much diversity and variety!
I also hope this translates into the metagame of encouraging people to meet new people in different places of the world as well, instead of super hotspots.
Just the idea that a few Charr make their way to the Grove and party up with a few Sylvari and actually have an adventure going through a DE chain then plunging into the hidden roots of the Maguuma jungles dungeon would be just amazing for just one whole day in the world of Tyria.
Gmr Leon
Backstage Worker.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Durmand Priory
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton
lol, seriously, guys, we can talk about something besides the sex.
I still can't get over the whole dueling thing. That's pretty intense. I wonder what form these duels take. I wouldn't think they would be to the death.
The duels are kind of odd, given their racial empathy with one another...You'd think that would produce a more understanding mindset, instead of something confrontational. I guess it may have something more to do with their personal sense of honor rather than hurt feelings or anything.
another
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Location: Location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunkhead
Well Hamilton, while you weren't so lucky with your dueling..
But I'd assume this kind of thing would be met with high approval among Charr as well. Makes me wonder if there'd be a duel between a Charr and a Sylvari or if the duels are only specifically for inter-racial issues...
I don't think charr would approve, actually. Sylvari duels sound like an honour thing, whereas a duel between charr is more likely to be mundane training. A charr would probably see sylvari duels as namby-pamby ritual, whereas sylvari would see charr duels as needless violence.
I think, anyway. I might need to brush up on my charr lore.
Wymsical
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelty
I too hope they're not to the death. It seems bizarre for a race which is so inexperienced with life, as well as death, to give up the life that was given to them by the Tree. As well as people who are so empathetically connected to eachother.
I sincerely doubt they're to the death. If they are, I'm sure there's a very reasonable lore backing for it (as has been for everything that's been answered so far) but, again, I see no reason for them to be to the death. Sylvari aren't humans, after all; they might not see any point to duels being so fatal!
Alexander Hamilton
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Sep 2010
Hm. Well, in the 18th century, dueling wasn't really about trying to kill your enemy. It was about proving that you were man enough to risk your life for your honor.
Not that I know a lot about dueling customs of course.
>_>
BY KRISTEN PERRY AUGUST 8TH, 2011
Every race in Guild Wars 2 started with a simplified description-a way to describe the essence of the people in a sentence or less. The sylvari description was pared down to just three words: noble, beautiful, plant. In the past, our design iterations would always lean towards one or two of these descriptors, but in the end we really wanted to have a race that would represent all three characteristics clearly. I began to develop an alternate version of the race on my own at night, while preparing for our debut in gamescom 2010 by day.
I knew it was ultimately important to find the right balance between the beauty of the visuals and the mystic plant nature of the lore, but we also wanted to design a race that was unique to the Guild Wars world. So I began researching the perceptions and expectations surrounding the idea of plant people.
Petal to the Mettle
There’s one big root to the design direction of the sylvari that I hold most dear: it all must stem from anatomy. However, researching this design proved to be very tricky. It seemed that most images of plant people fell into one of two categories: painted humans with leaf accessories or outright plant monsters. The elf concept was most prevalent, featuring flora jewelry and clothing. They may have sported leaf coiffures, but they were little more than humans with an affinity for nature.
Next, I entered into dryad territory, where most of the examples paint various leaves or bark textures onto the skin to infuse plant-like detail. For me, this felt like stage makeup and didn’t really bring forth the potential of a plant race.
At the far end of the plant spectrum were all of the ents and forest monsters, composed of many root, leaf, and bulb materials that merge together to create a humanoid form. Overall, this direction is too far as it pulls away from the beautiful humanoid we wanted.
While researching the distance between dryad and plant creature, I found the results were still very separated; most often you’d have a supermodel-beautiful girl with literal winding plant vines and leaves coiling around her. The plant side stayed plant while the human side stayed human, and there was no true marriage of the materials or the anatomy. Strip any of that stuff off the girl and it’s plain to see that she’s just wearing very planty parts. It wasn’t even skin deep.
The sylvari are a race of true plant people. They are described in our lore as a noble, attractive humanoid plant race, so it became clear that what I needed to design first was their concept of anatomy. This definition lead me to first consider wrapping vines and stems to follow human musculature. However, I quickly realized that this was going to have a couple of unwanted effects: one, the body looked too sci-fi, like cyborg body suits; and two, it made them look as if their skin had been peeled off. It was creepy. This extreme concept made it obvious that whatever anatomy I created would have to be attractive and may have to bend the fantasy rules of evolution, if there truly are any such mandates.
The Idea: It Arose by Any Other Name…
The solution was to create an illusion of anatomy. The figure was not formed from a human with leaves on top of it, but rather a human shape made from grown plant parts. This originates from specific growth sockets. The primary growth socket starts at the small of the back, where a tail might grow. Like many fruits and vegetables, there are two ends: the main stem and the opposing divot (which makes a really good belly button). Graceful leaves sprout from the growth socket, curving around and through the body to simulate the desired musculature. I used stems and broad leaves to articulate the carpal tendons and the flesh of the lower arms. Hosta leaves spiral out at the shoulders in a teardrop shape to form the deltoid “muscles,” while branches spring from the clavicles. Scientific anatomy turned out to be creepy, but garden-variety fantasy anatomy was just what was needed.
The really engaging part of the design process was inventing ways to break up the structures to further the illusion. The faces in particular allowed for the most creativity, and I found myself wanting to see just how far I could push the design before it became too removed from beauty. Ideally, the sylvari race will always have a wide range of beauty types, from nearly human to lovely creature, but there is a point beyond which they just no longer resemble player characters.
The sylvari have a unique freedom in anatomy. If you tried to make a human actor into a sylvari, between makeup and prosthetic appliances, you’d probably have a pretty good result. But under the makeup, the human skeletal structure would remain a barrier. The sylvari are not limited by the planes of a human skull; you can shape the jaw with layered vines, or create the illusion of a face by pressing shards of bark together vertically, and splitting the face in two. The brow can simply be a collection of leaves and it is the patterning alone that defines the eyebrow shape, much like the camouflage of a butterfly. Add to this freedom the myriad plant varieties and there are a vast number of options to explore.
Dressing Vine for Any Occasion
As the sylvari body is so entwined with anatomy, I saw no reason to leave out their clothing. Explaining the difference of a plant outfit to folks was a bit of a challenge because there seemed to be some rather deep rooted associations. Here’s the gist… the image below shows a simple sun dress, complete with belt wrap and coordinating necklace. If you asked a random person to envision that as a plant outfit, they will probably change the chain of the necklace to a vine, and augment the dress to include more leaf shapes and texture. But this is merely surface texture and creates only a costume.
To fully describe the anatomy of clothing, you have to let it grow as it would in nature. Many plants have a growth socket where the leaves arc out from a common point of origin, spiraling gracefully. To translate the sun dress into this philosophy, I would pick one main growth point and arc the pieces from there. The necklace can also be naturally translated, but instead of cutting it loose and tying it like a costume, it too receives a growth point and suspends delicately around the neck.
We have some old armor assets that we’re retrofitting to the new design and this will be done by adding stems and some growth points where possible. The design philosophy, in a nutshell, is to follow nature’s rules of growth and employ stems liberally. If the design structure really calls for tighter layering, don’t worry. Treat the pieces as one big stem and work from there. There’s a reason why arms and legs are called “limbs.”
Every Rose Has its Thorn
For those of you wanting a more rugged character, fear not-I’ve cultivated designs for you, too! There has been much debate about tying the seasons into the sylvari character’s storyline. We decided we didn’t want to force an aesthetic on anyone, so we’re leaving the choice open. Currently I’m making sure everyone has summer and winter body skins. The summer skin, as you’ve seen, is very lush and leafy with a lot of different types of plant details making up the anatomy. But what about bark textures and shard edges? For this effect we will have a winter skin available which shows more bramble tendons, dried leaves, bark trunks, and gnarled roots woven throughout the body.
What of spring and autumn? Well, really, if you dye the summer skin yellow-green, orange, or brown, you really have the other two seasons covered. The winter skin can always double as fall skin depending on how you accessorize. More body skins *might* come down the line, but I really wanted to ensure that players who wanted pretty and those who wanted rugged can both have a skin that they can customize as they see fit.
Down the Garden Path
As we move forward with the sylvari design, there will be many more refreshing new shapes and details to choose from. I have more faces planned and there will be more hair designs with branches and flowers. Male and female sylvari will get a full selection of ears, and perhaps some leaf patterns overlaying the skins like tattoos, along with bioluminescent markings.
I’ve put a lot of passion and effort into developing this race, and many folks have given their excellent talents bringing their elements to life. We’ve dug down to the sylvari cultural roots and branched out into a new vision, growing from the seeds of their racial identity. Some thought we were barking mad to redesign a race this far into development, but we had the “stamena” to stick to our ideals and allow it to blossom. For now, let me leaf you with the hope that you’re as excited about the sylvari race as I am!
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Fion
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedSick11
agreed! Old Caithe doesnt look like anything near plant ppl but more like human wearing leaves. the new improve Caithe bring out the Sylvari's true character. GOOD JOB, Kristen.
I'm loving that the new Sylvari aren't just humans or elves wearing plant clothing and flowery hair but actually look like plants that 'grew' into human/elf-like shapes. That they have stems that they grew out of, that their 'cloths' aren't outfits as much as parts of themselves that grew into those shapes. It's so much more wonderful than 'human wearing plant-like clothing' ever could have been.
Qing Guang
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St. Louis
I think the only thing more I could ask for is sylvari with flowers and pods and such. That would be a really good way to distinguish Spring and Autumn sylvari - Spring ones could be bright and blooming and riotously colorful, while Autumn ones could have warmer colors and some seedpod/fruit things going on. (I admit I just really want to see a Spring sylvari warrior with giant tropical flowers blooming out of her head and wielding a big hammer, for the sheer ridiculousness of it all)
another
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Location: Location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dratyan
One thing hasn't changed with the new design: If I eventually create a Sylvari, it'll definitely be a female. It's better to be in the "cute" category than the male's "weak and weird".
Personally, I hope that both genders can achieve any of these adjectives: cute, weak, weird, rugged, strong, badass, cool.
ANet seem to have a habit of showing off very gender-conforming examples of their more humanoid races, which makes me worry that going for gender-bending looks for those races will be difficult, if not impossible. On one hand, blog posts and concept art show an awful lot of heavily gender-conforming characters; on the other, shakycam demo videos provide glimpses of androgynous armour and chubby females. And they did avoid Humanoid Female Animal design with the female charr. So we'll see.
(I'm not trying to start an argument; I know many folks prefer their females cute and boobalicious and their males tough and beefy. And that each race aims for a particular aesthetic. Gender blurring is just important to me personally, and I'd really, really like to see it as a viable option in this game. Especially with the sylvari, for whom I think androgyny would work very well. )
Arienai
Pale Tree Seedling
Join Date: May 2011
OH MY GOD !!! The sylvari redesign just blew my mind away.
Now I can really feel it, they are plants with a humanoid shape instead of humans/elf with plants feature. It's in their core beings !
I want to know mooooore.
What are their inside made of ?!
Are they poisonous ?!
They are the fruits of the Pale Tree, right ? Can they become a source of food for the other races ?!
If you cut their limbs, will they regrow ?
What does their blood taste like ?
How do they smell ?
Can you make medicine with their clothes ?
Can mushroom sprout on them (in case of a disease for exemple) ?
etc... etc....
I'm sorry Kristen Perry, but I want the lore people to dissect them to know absolutely everything now
My excitement for this race cannot be stopped now
Originally Posted by ImraJamilaAlshams
First of all I love the design! Really couldn't be any more perfect. I'm not the biggest fantasy fan, but the fact that you were imaginative enough to invent a new type of being instead of going the elf+swamp thing route is pretty awesome, well done!
But on the whole leaves grow to make muscle, I did have a question: Where does Sylvari strength come from? Are there layers and layers of tightly woven leaves to make up the arms? If there's just leaves on top with stems underneath a Sylvari could be cut/injured pretty easily. Or is there a very strong wood making up all of the limbs and the leaves grow from an inner tree with the leaves growing on top to cover it and look humanoid? Basically, what does a Sylvari look like under the skin?
Sorry if this has been asked already (didn't read the whole thread), I didn't see a dev response to this question so I figured if it has been asked it at least hasn't been answered yet.
Kairo
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: USA
I honestly can't wait to see a video of the Grove and see the sylvari's movements/mannerisms...I want to see how their eyes move! I almost want them to be very twitchy...I mean the eyeball or whatever as if they are continuously changing focus from one thing to another. I think it'd be a lil cool way to show that the sylvari are curious to fault, constantly observing, even in the middle of a convo
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The Sylvari Soul - Angel McCoy on Writing the Sylvari
BY ANGEL MCCOY AUGUST 9TH, 2011 more on: lore and storyracessylvarisylvari week
My name is Angel Leigh McCoy, and I’m one of several writers on the Guild Wars 2 design team. We’ve been molding Tyria into a living, breathing world, and I’m here to share some audio clips of in-game dialogue and give you some insight into the sylvari, Tyria’s newest race.
Sylvari Basics
All the races of Guild Wars 2 are fun to write, but sylvari rank in the top three for me. I love how their virtue blends with their innocence and then contrasts with the darkness of the world surrounding them. This disparity illuminates the sacrifices, gallantry, and tragedies of Tyria’s war with the dragons.
Remarkably, the sylvari race didn’t come into existence until 25 years ago (in game years) when the twelve firstborn awoke. Since then, new sylvari have continued to awaken on a regular basis, their numbers growing as time advances.
Sylvari arrive in the world fully grown. They emerge from pods that grow on the Pale Tree: a magical, sentient tree with its roots deep in Tyria and its branches in the Dream. They leave the Dream-a mystical place where sylvari memories are collected-and incubate in their pods, then emerge into the world. They bring with them a spectator’s understanding of how the world works, having witnessed aspects of it while in the Dream. Their first few days in the world are critical, and they’re met by mentors and other newly awakened who help them find their way.
In this series of scenes, a male sylvari attempts to explain his awakening to a female norn. Listen in:
Sylvari BirthPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Designing Sylvari from Scratch
The sylvari have evolved a great deal over the years. When first designed, they looked like gnarled, wooden figures. The next concept art iteration resembled children. We didn’t want child warriors going into battle, so we matured their look. Sylvari were also telepathic in the early days, but we quickly realized how much of a game-mechanic and story nightmare that would be, so we trimmed back their telepathy, making it empathy instead. It suited them better.
The writing team, led by Bobby Stein, along with world designers Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb, spent many hours discussing the sylvari, what their lives would be like, and how they would act. We took those discussions and molded the everyday sylvari that you pass in the streets of Divinity’s Reach or elsewhere in the world.
Some of the questions we asked ourselves included:
What are the first few weeks of a sylvari’s life like?
The first few weeks are an exercise in overcoming disorientation. Fortunately, newly awakened sylvari have a lot of help adjusting.
Sylvari don’t have brothers, sisters, parents, or any other familial connections. How does this affect how they bond with others?
They get to choose their families! The honorable sylvari can be extremely loyal once a bond has been created with another being. Sylvari also have strong racial attachments, not just because of the empathic links that connect them, but because only other members of their own race can understand what it’s like to be sylvari. These ties may be strengthened by shared experience or ultimately weakened, like distant cousins you only see on holidays.
Do sylvari have romantic relationships?
Sylvari fall in and out of love, just like other races do. They have a romanticized view of devotion, and they’re curious about passion in all its forms. There are male and female sylvari, but none has ever produced a child as other races do. Because of this, traditional human-style gender roles have no meaning to sylvari, either in their society or in their romantic relationships. Often, a sylvari’s ardor is expressed with courtly zeal-emotional, empathic, personal-and is not necessarily defined by gender.
Are sylvari naive?
Sylvari may be naive when they first leave the pod, but they don’t stay that way for long. They learn their lessons well, especially if the lessons come with lumps, thumps, or broken hearts.
Since they awaken fully grown, do they have an understanding of what it’s like to be a child?
No. They have never been children. Those small beings-miniature versions of the adults-who are so well protected, are alien to sylvari. Many are terrified at the thought of being born so vulnerable.
As a group, we pondered these questions and many more until we came up with a race that felt fleshed out. We then tried different approaches to sylvari dialogue. During this process, we identified several personality keystones that defined our sylvari voice.
Sylvari Keystone #1: Honor
A sylvari’s honor gives her a sense of propriety that the youth of other races do not have. In many ways, they are like the Arthurian knights (without the gender bias). They take their duties seriously, and they live by a personal code. Their justice system involves duels, and when duels no longer satisfy, then the wisdom of an elder sylvari prevails. While evil sylvari do exist, most stand up for what is right, and even those who succumb to nightmare have a hatred for the Elder Dragon Zhaitan and the horrors of Orr. Listen in:
Love LostPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #2: Curiosity
The sylvari race is less than 25 years old, and most sylvari are younger than 20. When they come into the world, they have already seen much via the Dream, but they have experienced none of it themselves. For this reason, a sylvari may express surprise, joy, and even awe at the sight of something that most of Tyria’s citizens would consider mundane.
However, sylvari are not childlike creatures who see a miracle in every blade of grass. They have an active sense of wonder but are not naive. They were born in a world at war and their own home, the Grove, suffers constant assault. They learn quickly that people deceive, that death is painful, and that evil exists. Despite this, they’re driven to go out into the world, to help others, to right wrongs, and perhaps, one day, to banish evil in all its forms. Listen in:
Contemplating the DetailsPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #3: Empathy
As progeny of the Pale Tree, sylvari have a special connection with plants. They can often empathize with flora, even possessing certain magical abilities that allow them to grow plants into useful items such as walls, armor, and weaponry.
Being a form of sentient plant life, they can sometimes feel another sylvari’s emotions if the emotion is strong enough. They don’t get any information other than the feeling itself, but it’s something that connects all sylvari and gives them a sense of belonging. Listen in:
Citizens RoamingPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #4: The Dream
Sylvari exist in the Dream of Dreams prior to awakening. While in this womb, they draw nourishment from their mother, the Pale Tree, and along with that nourishment, they receive knowledge of the world. The Pale Tree collects her knowledge from awakened sylvari. She gathers memories of their experiences like a mystical net collecting leaves from a stream. The more intense or emotional an experience, the more likely the memory of it will reach the Pale Tree’s consciousness and eventually seep into the Dream where unawakened sylvari may witness it. Powerful as this is, the Pale Tree doesn’t see every moment of every sylvari life, and she is not omniscient.
Furthermore, not all sylvari see the same Dream visions, so everyone awakens with a unique foundation of worldly knowledge. The Dream may reveal clues that foretell the sylvari’s profession and talents. It may reveal historical events that will impact the sylvari’s personality and future choices. It may reveal knowledge of everyday life, both in sylvari society and among other races. They see many things about Tyria and are thus ready to begin living when they awaken fully grown and leave the Pale Tree.
A small percentage of awakened sylvari eventually receive a calling to the Wyld Hunt. Their first hints of this may have appeared in the Dream prior to their awakening, though few would recognize it as such. A sylvari called to the Wyld Hunt has an especially important purpose and is dubbed a Wyld Hunt valiant. Great responsibility comes with the Wyld Hunt, as does great opportunity. Most sylvari take this so seriously that they would die in service to this quest. Each sylvari’s Wyld Hunt is unique. Listen in:
Arching BoughsPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Sylvari Keystone #5: Philosophy
When the first sylvari awakened at the base of the Pale Tree, they found a stone tablet-the Ventari Tablet-carved with seven tenets to live by. It was written by Ventari, a wise centaur who lived hundreds of years before the first sylvari was born. The sylvari have embraced these tenets as one would embrace the words of a prophet. They discuss their meanings and have deep philosophical exchanges about the nature of life, love, and honor. Listen in:
MentoringPlayVolume0:00 / 0:00
Diversity
The sylvari have personalities built of complex emotions, quirks, and goals. They have quickly become just as complicated and nuanced as our other races. You won’t find anything cookie-cutter or cardboard about any of them, and our in-game dialogue gives us the chance to express the sylvari in all their colors, shapes, and sizes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Regina Buenaobra
ArenaNet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
edit 2: I love that their relationships are regardless of gender. As a totally new and plant-based race, it is only sensible their love would be for love, not for tradition or function (since to them there is no use in function, they can't reproduce anyway).
I just want to make a related comment. One of our fans was curious about Caithe, Faolain, and what the nature of the relationship is between them. Here's Ree's answer (spoilers for Edge of Destiny!):
Quote:
Hello, all!
Regina’s forwarded to me a question from a player, and I wanted to take a minute from scribbling lore to answer. The question was, ‘What is the relationship between Caithe and Faolain?’
The sylvari attitude toward gender is somewhat unusual in Tyria. Yes, sylvari are born physically male or female, but they do not sexually reproduce. Therefore, pairings of lovers are not for the purpose of creating children. Sylvari pairings might be heterosexual or homosexual, and they make no distinction between the two.
To a sylvari, love is about inspiration. Physical touch, ardor, and sensuality are beautiful things, but what the heart feels, what gives joy to the spirit - these are most important, and that has nothing at all to do with the physical form. Love is not bound by gender. It does not ignore the pairing of hearts simply because the bodies are alike. Indeed, the sylvari feel free to love (and love openly) regardless of the physical qualities of their beloved. It would surprise them to hear that someone of any race felt differently. They would say that love is too precious to be passed over simply because someone’s eyes are blue, their hair is dark, or because they are of the same sex.
Faolain and Caithe are two of the Firstborn, the twelve sylvari that stepped from the Pale Tree at the very beginning. While others of the Firstborn chose to stay and tend the tree, or to explore only the forest that surrounded them, Caithe and Faolain dared to see the world. They traveled Tyria, relying on one another, respecting each other’s skills - Caithe, the deadly martial fighter; Faolain, with her powerful sorcery. Yes, they fell very deeply in love, and yes, that love was both inspirational and tangible.
When Faolain fell to Nightmare - and that is another story - Caithe was beside her. But at the moment Faolain chose to move forward and embrace darkness, Caithe stepped away. It was a single action, but the divide between them is vast. Unless Caithe joins the Nightmare Court, they will forever be parted, no matter how strong their love for one another. Faolain returns, time and time again, seeking to draw her lover back to her side, but each time, Caithe refuses and remains standing at Nightmare’s edge. She cannot bring herself to truly leave Faolain; she cannot join her.
Their story is the classic tragedy of star-crossed lovers. It has nothing to do with the fact that both are identifiably female. It has nothing to do with ‘gender.’
It has to do with love.
“Your heart belongs to me.” - Faolain, to Caithe (Edge of Destiny)
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Kailis
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Droknar's Forge
I like the voices. This article also got me to notice that Sylvari would be an easy race to eliminate >_>. Sneak some fire elementalists in, burn down the pale tree, and finish off whats left of them. With no reproductive capability, they'd be screwed.
One other thing though:
Quote:
Their justice system involves duels, and when duels no longer satisfy, then the wisdom of an elder sylvari prevails.
Possible that dueling will make it in as a regular feature? Or has this been confirmed/denied already?
jazilla
Seraph Guardian
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thinning Kodan Populations
I listened to the clips at first with my eyes closed. The British accents don't sound earthy enough for lack of a better term. A thick Irish accent would feel more organic. For example, I knew that was a Norn female the moment I heard her voice. The Sylvari females made me feel like my girlfriend was making me watch Sense and Sensibility and they were drinking tea and eating scones with frilly lace and china. Just my two cents I guess. If those voices evoke a plant-like race to anybody else, that's cool. They just don't feel organic enough to me.
Elder III
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ohio
Sylvari sound a little different that I had personally imagined. A little more Morgan Freeman and a little less thin, reedy plant people voice. Not that they sounded bad by any means, just different than expected. The additional information and lore clarification was very welcome of course.
Noah
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The Grove
When it comes to their sexual encounters, look at it this way.
Most couples do not have sexual intercourse due to the fact that they want children. They do it because the act itself is pleasurable. So reproduction is not a requirement for sex.
Sylvari feel pain when they're harmed, they can feel the warmth of the sun on their skin.. therefore they can feel. They have some sense of a nervous system. Why would these creatures only be able to feel pain? The fact that they can feel pleasure, and that they are so curious by nature, is reason enough for them to have sexual intercourse. The same reason most teenagers go out and have sex, not because they want children, but because they are curious about the pleasure it provides.
And this isn't catering to any perverted fantasy. It's simply answering an anatomical question about a new, mostly mysterious, race. Can they have sex? Yes. Can they reproduce sexually? No. Why do they have sex? They're curious about everything, even mature matter like sexual pleasure.
If people see some sick fantasy in all of this, that is a personal issue and not something that the more mature Guild Wars fans are going to have to deal with. By the way, Norn, Humans, Asura, Char... they all have sex too.. so sorry that you're so bothered by this fact. :3
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Regina Buenaobra
ArenaNet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by alzemu
I'll be honest and say sylvari enjoying bodily pleasure like that makes me quite irritated since it seems like Anet is just catering to sexual fantasies instead of creating a logical and believable (unique) race that could represent GW2 for futures to come....
I suspect that people who are thinking so deeply about how the sylvaris' bits work did not spend the same amount of time obsessing about how or why our other sentient playable races such as the humans or the charr or the asura "do it" or what they feel when they get intimate with partners.
Sylvari feel pain if you cut them. They have nerves and stuff. They feel things. So do the other races.
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Silveria
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Westeros
As I listened, I expected the accent to cause at least some sort of noticeable division in the community, but I quite like the turnout. It wasn't what I expected - for a long time, I had imagined the sylvari to sound more high-pitched, more curious. As I think on it now, especially after the redesign, such qualities are not entirely fitting. The two principles, fused, create an illusion of childhood that clearly is not the design intent, evident in both the scrapping of the childlike conceptualization of the race and what we've read today. Yes, I agree that there should a tinge of curiosity in their tone, however, there is a fine line between curiosity and naiveté. Giving them a slightly deeper, more noble accent can prevent such an immediate inference, as with higher pitched voices, we, and other races within the game, would inevitably come to think of the sylvari as children.
Yojimaru
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Aug 2009
Hrm, the way that Ree says that the Sylvari approach to gender is unusual in Tyria makes me think the other races are much like us in regards to relationships that stray out of the culturally accepted "norms". Ah well, nothing I'm not used to already.
The article was a very interesting read, but some of the voices struck me as sounding too "old". It's not really easy to explain... the accent doesn't bother me though.
Also, could we PLEASE stop using gender to refer to ones individual sex? All it's doing in breeding confusing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by izari
I find that odd, considering Caithe noted to Logan that human's means of reproduction was "strange", or whatever it was she said. I was under the impression she meant the actual act..
But then that wouldn't make sense.
She was referring to the birthing process I believe, which is indeed very foreign to Sylvari.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
I suspect that people who are thinking so deeply about how the sylvaris' bits work did not spend the same amount of time obsessing about how or why our other sentient playable races such as the humans or the charr or the asura "do it" or what they feel when they get intimate with partners.
Actually, I have found myself wondering about the "procedure" of the Charr. For us, the act is usually something that is very private, but since the Charr live largely military lives which usually don't afford much in the way of privacy it makes me wonder if Charr society has set aside special places for it, or are they a race of exhibitionists and thus don't mind doing it in the barracks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriggerSad
Ok, I just feel like this question really needs some thought and an answer.
Here's what we do know:
Can sylvari have sex? Yes.
Can they reproduce through sex? No.
Here's what I can't imagine and an confused with:
Then biologically speaking, what do they produce when having sex? By this I mean, what does a sylvari's sexual organs produce if not any sort of product used in the reproductive system?
.....Nectar? Ohohohohoho!
Gmr Leon
Backstage Worker.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Durmand Priory
Seeing as the sylvari sex discussion is dragging on, I'll toss in my two cents here. The Pale Tree, somehow, has developed a sort of maternal persona for the sylvari race, and as an apparently kindhearted, benevolent mother figure, she has given the sylvari as much as she can to help them experience everything in the world. She's given them eyes to see, ears to hear, noses to smell, legs to walk, feet to feel the ground, hands to touch and grasp, arms to embrace, and sexual organs to explore even that part of life. She gave them even what they did not need, to permit them to experience all that life has to offer.
You may decide if that sounds like a decent enough explanation for yourself, whether or not that is the case I do not know, but I'd like to think the Pale Tree wouldn't have any qualms about giving her children reproductive organs to allow them to explore even that part of life. Regardless of whether they are functional or not.
another
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Location: Location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelty
The first quote got me thinking. The Sylvari dude describes birth "...like falling from a great height, all the way down to the hard ground. Not all survive the fall."
I wonder if he was being literal or maybe he was speaking figuratively. The fall representing each sylvari's personal choice between ventari and the nightmare. The ground represents the real physical world. Not all survive refering to those who choose the nightmare.
That's a good way of thinking about it. I had assumed he was being literal, and just chuckled at his use of the word "like". But I think you may have hit upon what he was getting at. He may also have been describing the period immediately following birth, when sylvari have to adjust to life outside the dream.
Lunkhead
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wymsical
Agreed! Every glimpse we get of the world makes me more and more eager to just go waltzing off into it to see every little corner that there is. There's so much diversity and variety!
I also hope this translates into the metagame of encouraging people to meet new people in different places of the world as well, instead of super hotspots.
Just the idea that a few Charr make their way to the Grove and party up with a few Sylvari and actually have an adventure going through a DE chain then plunging into the hidden roots of the Maguuma jungles dungeon would be just amazing for just one whole day in the world of Tyria.
Gmr Leon
Backstage Worker.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Durmand Priory
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Hamilton
lol, seriously, guys, we can talk about something besides the sex.
I still can't get over the whole dueling thing. That's pretty intense. I wonder what form these duels take. I wouldn't think they would be to the death.
The duels are kind of odd, given their racial empathy with one another...You'd think that would produce a more understanding mindset, instead of something confrontational. I guess it may have something more to do with their personal sense of honor rather than hurt feelings or anything.
another
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Location: Location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunkhead
Well Hamilton, while you weren't so lucky with your dueling..
But I'd assume this kind of thing would be met with high approval among Charr as well. Makes me wonder if there'd be a duel between a Charr and a Sylvari or if the duels are only specifically for inter-racial issues...
I don't think charr would approve, actually. Sylvari duels sound like an honour thing, whereas a duel between charr is more likely to be mundane training. A charr would probably see sylvari duels as namby-pamby ritual, whereas sylvari would see charr duels as needless violence.
I think, anyway. I might need to brush up on my charr lore.
Wymsical
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: May 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelty
I too hope they're not to the death. It seems bizarre for a race which is so inexperienced with life, as well as death, to give up the life that was given to them by the Tree. As well as people who are so empathetically connected to eachother.
I sincerely doubt they're to the death. If they are, I'm sure there's a very reasonable lore backing for it (as has been for everything that's been answered so far) but, again, I see no reason for them to be to the death. Sylvari aren't humans, after all; they might not see any point to duels being so fatal!
Alexander Hamilton
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Sep 2010
Hm. Well, in the 18th century, dueling wasn't really about trying to kill your enemy. It was about proving that you were man enough to risk your life for your honor.
Not that I know a lot about dueling customs of course.
>_>