(no subject)
*Tip's 'theme': Jack Johnson - Upside Down. I like quite a few of the First: Aife! Malomedies ;_; Niamh!
Trise
Seraph Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Connecticut USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodinia
The times of the Sylvari cycles bug me, given their names.
How is a Sylvari born at 12:30 am anywhere near dawn? While a Sylvari born at 7 am, which may be before dawn depending on time of year, becomes a Sylvari of Noon.
Why not break things up at 9/3/9/3? It would make more sense.
3 am - 9 am Cycle of Dawn (covers the range of times for dawn)
9 am - 3 pm Cycle of Noon (the three hours on either side of noon)
3 pm - 9 pm Cycle of Dusk (covers the range of times for sunset)
9 pm - 3 am Cycle of Night (the three hours on either side of midnight)
The cycles are based on the solar cycle, with critical times as endpoints. 6am is typically sunrise, the point at which the sun crosses the horizon and crosses from darkness into daylight. Noon is the zenith, the point at which the Sun ceases to rise and begins to set. 6pm is typically sunset, the point at which the sun crosses the horizon again, this time ending daylight and bringing darkness. And therefore Midnight is the nadir, the point at which the sun ceases to set and begins to rise. It only makes sense that these points be important to a plant creature, rather than losing them as a midpoints of a range.
As they are, the cycles are named after their endpoints, not starting points, so it they still make sense... just slightly less. My logic follows thus: Since only one of those 6-hour periods is entirely night (usually), midnight-6am, that must be the "Cycle of Night". Dawn follows Night, Noon/Day follows Dawn, Dusk follows Day, and Night follows Dusk. If they were to change, I think that would make more sense.
Besides, we haven't been observing Sylvari births for 20 years or so. They themselves chose the critical points and cycle names. It would be like suggesting the Iron Legion change their name because they weren't actually made of iron.
darkeye
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: Sep 2010
I like the suggestion that the pale tree could be Dwayna, the way they described the tree obtaining information from the sylvari to add to the dream is still as vague as ever:
"the Mother Tree is drawing in hundreds of thousands of fragments from her children"
That's sounds more like omnipresence of a goddess than a physical being, I was hoping for a better explanation. 'Mother' suggests Dwayna too. It would be kinda of cool if the gods deserted the humans only for each of them to align with the different races to unite them against the elder dragons. Lyssa is Queen Jennah. Melandru is and has always been worshipped by norn as animal spirits. Balthazar favours but is not worshipped by the charr for obvious reasons. I can see Grenth vying for the souls of the orrians against Zhaitan, and that forming part of the initial story. And umm the asurans are welcome to Kormir if they want her, in their endless thirst for knowledge.
http://crystallinelore.com/2011/08/sylvari-week-knights-wild/
Sylvari Week - Knights of the Wild
BY CERULEAN SHAMAN - AUGUST 10, 2011
POSTED IN: GUILD WARS 2, LORE
Sylvari week continues onward with Leigh McCoy’s entry on writing the sylvari soul. According to the article it appears that the sylvari are given a unique insight into the workings of the world through the Dreams of Dreams, which when combined with their tablet’s teachings makes them very much the “watchful knights”.
The blog entry was fairly brief and only gave so much information, so I’ll refrain from simply recapping what little was said. Instead, as a self-proclaimed lore geek, I’d like to briefly poke at some related topics that are likely better left alone. If you’ve the time feel free to gather around the campfire and join me for some speculation, thoughts, and questions on the sylvari existence!
In a Storm of Souls
Leigh states that the sylvari are very aware of the vices of the world. They hold honor dear, actively seek to enlighten themselves, and generally despise misdoings. Leigh even goes far as to state that they are close to the Arthurian concept of knights and even hold very romanticized views of love, duty, and loyalty. Obviously, as also stated, they are not without their own diversity but this seems to be the color of their race, just as the charr and norn both have their own racial color while still retaining diversity.
Considering however how other races, such as the humans in particular, hold a far more fluid view of the world, I’m left wondering how the sylvari see such cultures and also wonder how this will effect their growth. They’re the very mothers and fathers of a sapling culture and society. Think of how far we humans have come in all our time existing, of how much has changed in the past 250 years.
A brief thought, but that’s one of the largest questions I came away with after reading today’s entry. The sylvari may very well be the children Leigh insists they can never become.
Beware the Pale Tree’s Shade
Another tidbit I am deeply interested, somewhat related to the sylvari soul and personality, is the Nightmare Court. I’ll admit to not knowing very much about it, but I think that’s universal at this point. Please correct me if I’m wrong. What I do know is that one of the Firstborn, Faolain, embraced the nightmares existing within the Pale Tree and has been trying to convert others. No one understands the nightmares, or even truly knows why they exist, but those of the Nightmare Court can flame these dreams by committing dark deeds.
Just as with the other sylvari, the experiences of the Nightmare Court are added to the Pale Tree and it is their hope that in this manner they can corrupt the Pale Tree herself.
For whatever reason. I’m sure it’s a complex portion of the sylvari storyline, but ultimately what we have here are dark elves. Still, it remains an interesting contrast to the typical sylvari existence and is worth some thought. What will the Nightmare Court do once they corrupt the Pale Tree? What is their view on the other races? Supposedly even the sylvari of the Nightmare Court despise the elder dragons and retain their desire to see them defeated, so are they willing to work with the other races and are the other races willing to accept them as a sylvari subculture?
What do the sylvari as a whole think of their darker kin? A blight to be destroyed via crusade? Lost lambs to be saved? Simply an alternative choice? Do sylvari elders allow freshly born sylvari the free choice between remaining or joining the Court? So many questions, with nary an answer in sight. If anything however these topics have the potential to add some strong flavor and deep complexity to the sylvari and their ingame stories, so here’s looking to some nice twists and surprises. I’ll admit to being more than a little excited. ;)
Guild Wars…3?
In this time of war and strife, and especially given the ideals of the sylvari, their presence can only be considered a blessing. Yet when I think of the future, I’m left to wonder. Could the sylvari be amongst the most powerful races to ever exist in Tyria? They have adapted well and in some cases have even matched what has taken the other races countless years to obtain. Their culture only took twenty-five years to enrich itself into a blend of moral ideals, philosophy, and thirst for knowledge.
They don’t have a child-like stage, effectively saving them some fifteen years of weakness and dependency, and the Dream of Dream gives them an even greater head start when compared to the youths of other races. What then, a hundred years into the future, when the Pale Tree is ripened by countless experiences obtained from the sylvari?
Humans (in reality) have advanced because we compounded on the work of those who came before, creating a stepping stone system of sorts, but even this is extremely limited. What if a sylvari saw the toiling of a great engineer as their embryonic dream, then eventually decided to research his work and become one herself. The pieces would fall together much more quickly this way, I’d assume!
Given the same chance as the other races to grow I feel that the sylvari are in a position to easily surpass them, though I can’t say what this might mean for the future. What will be born of these seeds? New magic? Vast improvements on charr technology? A future where the sylvari empire stretches across all the lands, a world where they enforce peace using their endlessly growing knowledge and numbers?
I don’t know, but it’s an interesting thought.
------------------------
Apogee
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Washington DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
He does make a point, though. When you don't "play by any rules" and have no morals to hold you back, you can really accomplish a lot domination-wise. Kindness can really be a weakness as much as a strength...
That's only true when thinking of individuals in a small time frame. Ultimately on the scale of civilizations and generations the moral path is more powerful because it provides a framework to pool resources. Evil just does not scale well.
That can be a hard lesson to learn because to an individual the rule does not hold. There is no guarantee that your particular good deeds will be rewarded. Bad things do indeed happen to good people.
Although as with all things, either extreme is not the best solution. A pacifist must eventually use the power of the community it creates to ensure the common good, be it through something as grand as war to something as small as a fine.
On an unrelated note, I'm really starting to feel the pull of the asura. Now that I see that they can have a little bit of an edge to them, I've become realy intrigued. I can't wait for next week.
nurt
Seraph Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: http://nocapsever.blogspot.com/
interesting to note that even though sylvari don't age, Malomedies is likened to an "ancient oak, massive branches unyielding against the storm" and later survives being scarred, withered and splintered.
all of which might give some hope anyone who'd like to make a sylvari that looks more rugged, worn, and weathered. maybe even sylvari that look a bit aged, or less frail than the norm. Malomedies is also described as being slender, graceful and beautiful though, at least before the scarring, so the 'ancient oak' and 'massive unyielding branches' may be entirely a reflection of personality, and not an indication of physical characteristics.
Nohjo
Pale Tree Seedling
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
Awww but Lyssa, you would make such a good sylvari.
I think Lyssa fits the sylvari more then Dwayna. And if anyone, the Pale tree would be Melandru. (Seeing that Melandru is half tree herself. )
Lyssa fits the sylvari because of their innate duality. Nightmare court/Ventari tablet.
It could be that the Gods are present in different forms around tyria. It could be that the Gods do not even exist as Gods, but just as powerful beings, like the asura claim.
On topic: Awesome blog post, I'm really eager to learn more about the Pale tree and her subconcious dream. (Guess I'm born during the dusk. :P )
Regina Buenaobra
ArenaNet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Greetings! Ree took a break from her busy schedule (and preparing for gamescom) to respond to a few points that emerged in response to her blog post.
Quote:
I wanted to respond to a few things about my recent blog post. Hope you don’t mind the interruption!
*Cadeyrn’s fall from grace happens over the course of a few years, not all at once; the events are separated in time. There is a total passage of about five years from the beginning to the end of the story. It feels a bit ‘rushed’ because it’s all told in succession, as the blog posts have to be, to try to keep them small. The firstborn came from the tree, then six or seven years passed, and then the secondborn… and then more generations, each coming closer in time together and producing larger groups, until we get to the present day, where sylvari are being born… oh, about as fast as players are making characters.
*Caithe didn’t realize how cruel her words were at the end of Cadeyrn’s discussion with the Pale Tree. She was simply trying to tell him a fact. Caithe made a mistake. As she’s had less socialization (all that traveling around), she didn’t understand how her words would sound. More than once, she’s regretted them - it is a bitter irony, in hindsight, that Caithe was the last straw that encouraged Cadeyrn to embrace nightmare, and in turn, nightmare took Faolain from her.
*Riannoc is not the sylvari who went to Orr. You do know that sylvari’s name, but you won’t know the story until you get to play GW2.
*Silvernis: of the four race week "Friday stories" we've seen thus far, this is unfortunately the least polished in terms of writing.
-You’re absolutely correct. Although the lore’s accurate, between how long this blog entry was (all the new stuff!) and the fact that we were hitting deadlines for GamesCon, I think the article could have used one more editing pass. You have my apologies, and thank you for being kind in your critique!
*The twelve Firstborn were divided among the cycles, three to each cycle. I think you have nine of their names so far. I’ll also note for the record that yes, Caithe is Night; Faolain is of the Cycle of Dusk. The am-pm turning of the hours mentioned in my post are less hard-set than they appear in the article. Rodinia & the others commenting on this are correct in that there’s fluctuation in the precise ‘clock hour’ between the cycles at any given time (or during Tyria’s seasons).
*Vahsyl: Stop reading my Secret Book of Lore, you scoundrel.
Thanks for the wonderful lore arguments, guys. I love reading the forums!
-------
http://www.nancy.cc/2008/03/17/how-to-pronounce-popular-irish-names-aoife-cian-niamh-oisin/
Aoife is pronounced EE-fa. Niamh is pronounced NEE-av or NEEV.
Caderyn = (kad ER in)
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/sylvari-soul-angel-mccoy-writing-t20014p20.html
Lunkhead
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wymsical
That is a rather grim implication... being implanted with some terribly gruesome memories through no fault of your own... If this is the case, it would bring a very intriguing side to the Nightmare Court.
Would be great, because that's what I was trying to argue about while everyone ignored and went on about sex, being just as subjective as a Sylvari ironic enough.
The section where I was referring to as how maybe the Nightmare Court isn't the "evil" that we may think, but misaligned by their experiences in the Pale Tree's Dreams/Nightmare. It really brings a subjectivity to it and makes arguing for and against it even more complex...it's a morally ambiguous line and that's probably why Caithe can endure Faolain without killing Faolain apart from their emotional ties, and explains the dueling aspect as well. If their logic is based on experiences and emotions, then it'd baffle a militarily pragmatic Charr who would have no patience with the Nightmare Court and seek to eradicate them much like the Flame Legion.
Since the Nightmare isn't the Charr's problem this is not the case, but just drawing a parallel.
With that said, it would make sense that the Nightmare Court probably live among the Sylvari and there are no segregation in Sylvari culture whatsoever.
Spiritual Machine
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavx
Here's a question. If sylvari are plants, do they breathe?
If they don't breathe like other creatures do, then does it make sense for them to have a breathing apparatus during underwater content?
If not, then how does the drowning state work with them?
Well if you think about it pragmatically, they'd need some manner of lungs in order to produce speech.
And lungs are one of the more efficient ways of getting air into the body. Our muscles require a constant feeding of oxygen to function, and require much more in order to do more strenuous work. Sylvari are different from plants in that they can move, and there for burn many, many more precious calories by moving, or even simply by standing still, as one's muscles must constantly flex and shift to keep one's balance. Having lungs would complement a humanoid body. I'm not saying they do have lungs, or have muscles as we know them, or breathe oxygen, but I'm saying it's certainly plausible.
Even if they breathe carbon dioxide, they'd still have a hard time getting it from underwater. You CAN drown a plant, you know. Not all of them survive underwater, and Sylvari certainly seem land-based.
All of this adds up to them benefiting from a breathing apparatus though, which they do in-game.
As for breathing through their skin or something, did you know amphibians can breathe through their skin? Even humans can to some degree. This still isn't necessarily helpful underwater if one's skin cannot draw air from the water. And if that was all Sylvari could do to get air, then maybe nothing short of a special suit would help them under there...
Lunkhead
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual Machine
It's about identity, a focal point in a sylvari's personal story.
"There is no greater mystery worth exploring than the Self." (How Jungian of them.)
Does THAT make sense to you?
This. I agree that identity and individuality will come from them. They each receive individual memories, they each have their individual feelings and experiences, they're not just one plant, they're many types melded together that embody a Sylvari and makes them particularly distinct.
I know for sure that I will be able to spot a Sylvari from a distance now and understand what they're going through as a race, because they have JUST become that. They have no stories other than drawing upon inconsistent memory. They're nature's databanks that will probably record the history of Tyria from here on out if there will be a Tyria to record after the Dragons...
Such challenges are involved with the question of gender identity, which the Sylvari seem to not be shamed or embarrassed about compared to Humans. Since it seems to be very naturalist type of approach, to them nudity is probably not a self-conscious issue either, and that involves territory of intimacy and sexual activities. They just don't have a rigid sense of ethics implanted or rooted into their society just yet. Other than the codes written under the tablets which I assume are merely guidelines... They're still very much experimenting in regards to every subject without being ashamed or conscious about it. But that can also be a big threat to other races. It's a double edge for them.
The question is, can other races accept them for the fact they are plants without just hacking them down or snuffing them out of existence as we would to a blade of grass? With no regard and of no consequence..because for all you know..Sylvari could just made of voodoo magic inside with a plant-like appearance as an illusion. Or is their society much more than that due to their potential to grow and cultivate a race? (Which includes all taboo and every cultural issues, whether they view them as a major issue or not.) But that can also be a big threat to other races, if each are intent on competing for the future of Tyria by themselves. It's a double edge for them since they are born into a world that knows no mercy as much as nature. The big part is that they're conscious and sentient, so they have to have a say apparently, and define their culture by unconventional means, whether they are indifferent to procreation but enjoy an emotional and physical response from it, with the same regard to any curiosity they approach, being able to touch, smell, taste, see, hear it all is the definite all in order to become a real being of conscious state.
The elders must have one hell of a responsibility.
Symbiont
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Mar 2011
so as we create our sylvari ingame, will we get the chance to see our-self bash to the ground while emerging from the pods?
and while we look around we see sylvari pop out their pods from the ground and even sylvari who didn't made it and lying death on the ground.
if they depict this gruesome scenario as our starting ground with the contrast of a world that looks like a luminescence fantasy... i would just be happy to see this kind of raw nature.
Symbiont
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronan
Brilliant idea, I approve.
i don't expect many to agree with such visual violence, especially not as a starter area. but personally, i'm very intrigued to see such a contrast so visual and not just the pink fantasy side of things. a bit like tim burtons take on fantasy, just a tad bit more gruesome.
anyway, the falling from the tree scenario has been described in the audio-clip, but a visual depiction of this would make more impact. and i think that this aspect would set the sylvari as a race far apart from other fantasy nature-races. (it's not all pretty and such)
Zungx
Golem Rider
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Shiverpeaks
I could easily see the dead sylvari in a secret area of the Grove or the Sylvari starting area. Maybe one sylvari who greets you upon "birth," mentioning how every sylvari is born fresh and alive. Then you find a secret alcove with a bunch of dead sylvari in pods where it can be inferred that they throw all the "failed" ones.
Lunkhead
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
Well, actually, the nightmare court is very likely right about them being the more "true" form of Sylvari. I'm quite certain the natural sylvari is feral and violent in nature, while the Pale Tree has been influenced greatly by idealists who want peace more than anything.
That makes it quite difficult to decide on a side...curse you sympathetic villains! But it's like the whole race is innocent and doesn't need the corruption and jaded or cynical view of the world. I have an urge to protect them..
Damn you nature vs. nurture!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimaru
Count on it. I'm sure the clean air will do you good, what with all that smoke in the air of the Black Citadel.
I think I have a lot more to worry about rather than all that smog. Like Dragons raining death above us...but yes, I agree. I look forward to using the Grove as a place of recluse and quiet. It'll be a definite change of pace.
Faowri
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eggman
Everyone talking about the sylvari using the hoe...was I the only one who thought, like all sylvari, that she was curious about the tool and why the other races use it? As others have pointed out as well, she sounds frustrated while using it. Just my take on it.
I love this interpretation so much that I now refuse to believe anything else. It's hilarious.
Amannelle
Legion Commander
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Grove
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eggman
Everyone talking about the sylvari using the hoe...was I the only one who thought, like all sylvari, that she was curious about the tool and why the other races use it? As others have pointed out as well, she sounds frustrated while using it. Just my take on it.
That's a BRILLIANT take on it! Oh man, I hope they have her make some comment in-game like "Maybe I'm supposed to use the other side of it?" or something to that extent.
(And no "that's what she said" jokes, now. >_<)
------------------------
« Home Sweet Sylvari Home
Why Do Sylvari Have Boobs?
August 11, 2011 by Randomessa
Or, Sexual Dimorphism in Guild Wars 2
Now that the sylvari have made their grand re-entrance in numerous articles in gaming news, this is a question that has been popping up as those who haven’t been following GW2 (or simply not following as rabidly as others) get exposed to this new race. So, why is it, folks wonder, that a race of sentient plant people whose bodies are mere illusions of humanoid forms, have secondary sex characteristics such as breasts (or beards; nobody seems to ask why sylvari have beards)?
It begins with the story of a man and a centaur. The human Ronan, upon finding his village had been slaughtered by the White Mantle and their Mursaat, planted a seed on his family’s graves, vowing to live peacefully from that point onward. He was later befriended by a centaur named Ventari, who shared Ronan’s ideals despite the violent history shared between their respective peoples.
After Ronan died, Ventari tended to the sapling that grew upon the human graves, and wrote his thoughts and life lessons on a tablet that he laid at the base of the tree. The sylvari were later born from this Pale Tree, taking the human forms from the land that nurtured it. Hence, boobs. And beards.
If you remember that their "modesty flowers" are part of them, you realize they're actually naked.
While sylvari do have gender, they act entirely without regard to gender with respect to life, chivalry, and love.
…traditional human-style gender roles have no meaning to sylvari, either in their society or in their romantic relationships. Often, a sylvari’s ardor is expressed with courtly zeal-emotional, empathic, personal-and is not necessarily defined by gender.
Angel McCoy, ArenaNet
I think I can safely say, based on the above information, that the reason for the mammalian protrusions is not purely for titillation. First of all, ArenaNet can do better than that for titillation’s sake (see: Norn females, below). Second of all, the following races exist to show that ArenaNet does know what to do with races that have no good biological reason for D-cups:
Charr
Charr male (L), charr female (R)
As might be expected from our knowledge of cats, female charr do not have visible breasts.
I gave them a choice: either be subtle and downplay the breasts (it wasn’t a point of the race, anyway) or go full-on realistic. Yes, that’s right -none or six!!
-Kristen Perry, ArenaNet
Instead, they are distinguished from male charr by the size and placement of their horns and teeth, a slightly sleeker head shape and a bushier tail. More on the breast issue (and the other issues related to designing the charr) here.
Asura
Asura female (L), asura male (R)
Here is the final example of a race that does not slap breasts onto the female characters and call it a day. While more information might be forthcoming about whether asura have teats like charr, or simply lack that characteristic altogether, it is apparent that aside from a few variations in head shape and hairstyle - and perhaps clothing - there is no differentiation between male and female asura. There does not even appear to be a notable height difference between the two.
Now that we’ve covered two races without the typical fantasy sexual dimorphism, and one who act entirely without regard to gender and for whom such differences are mere outward forms, we turn to the familiar.
Norn
What were we saying about titillation?
Here we have possibly the most extreme case of sexual dimorphism in the form of bulk and body structure between the male and female norn. The males seem to be built with a particularly recognizable heft to them, and an allowance for an abundance of hair grooming options on nearly every exposed surface, while the females, unfortunately, venture very close to “large woman” status.
How much we will be able to modify the female norn build and bring it more in line with that of the male is something that I hope we will get to glimpse at the upcoming Gamescom convention. Right now this is probably the most obvious throwback to video game titillation to be found in Guild Wars 2. Fortunately, at least, these female norn can easily break your bones for commenting on their, well, titillation.
Human
Ah, there we go. Nice and reliable and wearing clothes that make sense at a Renaissance Faire. Here you can expect get your usual suspects and a variety of builds (we can hope): men with or without facial hair, slender such as the one above, or perhaps bulkier to a degree currently unknown. Whether women have a slider for their bodice area will be of great interest for those watching the convention footage coming in next week.
All in all, I think ArenaNet has done a good job avoiding many of the tropes and stereotypes about male/female appearance, dress, and behavior when it comes to their race design. We have breasted sylvari who engage in chivalry, asura and charr who don’t have breasts, norn females who drink and fight with the best of them, and humans who are led by a queen with no king in sight.
So the next time someone asks if female sylvari have breasts in order to satisfy the 14-year old male audience, simply challenge them to a duel with your female sylvari character; may the best sylvari win.
Rends with Tongue
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NY
It might just be my interpretation of the Nightmare Court, but I think a lot of people are either focusing on one aspect but ignoring the others or simply can't fathom the machinations of the faction -- which, arguably, is kind of the point. If you could readily empathize and understand the Nightmare Court, then you could consider yourself a similarly depraved individual (not really, but you get the point).
If I were to liken the Court to anything, I'd say the Sabbat of the World of Darkness game, Vampire the Masquerade; they're vampires following alien paths of morality, having long since abandoned their own humanity. In this case, the Sylvari of the Court have abandoned the dream in favor of a new ideological path based on the notion that the Pale Tree has been corrupted by Ventari's teachings which could give rise to the theory that the Pale Mother is either already corrupt, or she is being manipulated; the Court (in my opinion) desires to purge her of these flaws through the Nightmare. If the aforementioned thoughts are accurate, then they are acting on the noblest of notions to protect a mother-in-need. I think as normal humans, we easily attribute "nightmare" with being evil, but in reality, it's simply analogous to the Dream.
I don't deny that their described actions are morally reprehensible, I just think that they might be better perceived as individuals an alien path of morality -- more alien than the Sylvari themselves already are in regards to the other races of Tyria -- and it might be easier for the Sylvari of the Nightmare Court to follow this dark path because they are either so new, or because they've had the luxury of being born into a world with some level of apriori knowledge and the cognitive capacity (at birth) to understand the information, as well as form views and opinions on it.
So to sum it up... I don't think that calling them "cartoony" really explains or expounds on their actual nature, which is simply too harrowing a morality for us normal people to understand. Nor do I consider them 'cliched, boring baddies'. By very way of their innate age and youth, they kind of evoke this 'dangerous immortal' thing (in my mind) that sort of explains how and why they can act the way they do. They enjoy it, but it also serves a grander purpose; they are still Sylvari, and through the Nightmare, they will hold to the standards of Nobility, Beauty and the third thing that I cannot recall as having been stated as one of the three things used to describe the Sylvari.
And I know that by my explaining this, I've either proved myself to not be a normal person, or that I have no idea what I am talking about.
Arkham Creed
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beacon's Perch
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
How do the Sylvari eat? like a pitcher plant?
From Ghosts of Ascalon, chapter ten.
Quote:
“For humans most likely,” said Killeen, “but not for us.” She picked up an oversized drumstick. “This is the leg of a young moa. I know that it is a moa from the Dream, and further that it is well cooked but not over-cooked. I know what it tastes like but have never tasted it mtself.” She took a bite of the leg and chewed for a moment or two. “Chicken,” she said at last, the word muffled by the food in her cheek.
Ring
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Echovald
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
That's because you accepted what ArenaNet gives you, i do worship them, but if i think things can be better i will say it they've already gone this far to make this a new race in the fantasy realm, hell, they can make a movie just about Sylvari and it would be great. (with the correct director etc , this is another story off course) so why not make it perfect.
I accepted what ArenaNet gave us because I like it. I like that they live in houses and eat food and can act like humans, because if they were different they wouldn't be sylvari any more. I know them now, so I wouldn't want them to change much, if at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimaru
Their explanation of Sylvari anatomy has been pretty inconsistent. They first say they have wooden bones, then say their facial features aren't constrained to a human skull which kinda gives the impression that they have no skull, then they say wooden skeleton again, then again that their arms are leafs and stems that have come together to form an arm. It's quite confusing. Of course, detailed anatomy isn't something that writers explore outside of certain genres.
I don't think it's contradictory, because the "wooden skeleton" doesn't have to actually follow the form of a human skeleton. If both are true (wooden bones and tightly packed plant material for "flesh"), then it could be that the skeleton is more like a wire armature of the type used for sculpting figures. Those just provide a basic framework to lay the "flesh" (clay or fiber or paper or cloth) on so that it keeps its shape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadavenger
Loving the lore. Some inquiries:
1. Ventari tablet: Sylvari follow the teachings of the Ventari tablet, so does that mean Sylvari can read? How and when? If they can read the tablet, should also mean they can write? The lore mentioned that they want to develop their own writing system---redundant?
2. Nightmare court: I thought Faolain was the first to turn to the nightmare court and after all she is the Grand Duchess and one of the first born. But the lore mentioned that Cadeyrn is the founder of the courtiers, he sits on his throne, etc...I'm a little confused on this. Some clarifications would be appreciated.
I remember hearing something about the sylvari learning to read within the Dream, and the Pale Tree imparting basic knowledge to them before they're born--how to fight, how to read, how to talk, and so forth. From the context--learning about the languages of Tyria--it sounds more like an attempt to create an alphabet or language specific to their race, which would contribute to their cultural identity.
As for Faolain and Cadeyrn, we haven't been told that story yet, and we'll probably hear more about it in the game.
Trise
Seraph Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Connecticut USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodinia
The times of the Sylvari cycles bug me, given their names.
How is a Sylvari born at 12:30 am anywhere near dawn? While a Sylvari born at 7 am, which may be before dawn depending on time of year, becomes a Sylvari of Noon.
Why not break things up at 9/3/9/3? It would make more sense.
3 am - 9 am Cycle of Dawn (covers the range of times for dawn)
9 am - 3 pm Cycle of Noon (the three hours on either side of noon)
3 pm - 9 pm Cycle of Dusk (covers the range of times for sunset)
9 pm - 3 am Cycle of Night (the three hours on either side of midnight)
The cycles are based on the solar cycle, with critical times as endpoints. 6am is typically sunrise, the point at which the sun crosses the horizon and crosses from darkness into daylight. Noon is the zenith, the point at which the Sun ceases to rise and begins to set. 6pm is typically sunset, the point at which the sun crosses the horizon again, this time ending daylight and bringing darkness. And therefore Midnight is the nadir, the point at which the sun ceases to set and begins to rise. It only makes sense that these points be important to a plant creature, rather than losing them as a midpoints of a range.
As they are, the cycles are named after their endpoints, not starting points, so it they still make sense... just slightly less. My logic follows thus: Since only one of those 6-hour periods is entirely night (usually), midnight-6am, that must be the "Cycle of Night". Dawn follows Night, Noon/Day follows Dawn, Dusk follows Day, and Night follows Dusk. If they were to change, I think that would make more sense.
Besides, we haven't been observing Sylvari births for 20 years or so. They themselves chose the critical points and cycle names. It would be like suggesting the Iron Legion change their name because they weren't actually made of iron.
darkeye
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: Sep 2010
I like the suggestion that the pale tree could be Dwayna, the way they described the tree obtaining information from the sylvari to add to the dream is still as vague as ever:
"the Mother Tree is drawing in hundreds of thousands of fragments from her children"
That's sounds more like omnipresence of a goddess than a physical being, I was hoping for a better explanation. 'Mother' suggests Dwayna too. It would be kinda of cool if the gods deserted the humans only for each of them to align with the different races to unite them against the elder dragons. Lyssa is Queen Jennah. Melandru is and has always been worshipped by norn as animal spirits. Balthazar favours but is not worshipped by the charr for obvious reasons. I can see Grenth vying for the souls of the orrians against Zhaitan, and that forming part of the initial story. And umm the asurans are welcome to Kormir if they want her, in their endless thirst for knowledge.
http://crystallinelore.com/2011/08/sylvari-week-knights-wild/
Sylvari Week - Knights of the Wild
BY CERULEAN SHAMAN - AUGUST 10, 2011
POSTED IN: GUILD WARS 2, LORE
Sylvari week continues onward with Leigh McCoy’s entry on writing the sylvari soul. According to the article it appears that the sylvari are given a unique insight into the workings of the world through the Dreams of Dreams, which when combined with their tablet’s teachings makes them very much the “watchful knights”.
The blog entry was fairly brief and only gave so much information, so I’ll refrain from simply recapping what little was said. Instead, as a self-proclaimed lore geek, I’d like to briefly poke at some related topics that are likely better left alone. If you’ve the time feel free to gather around the campfire and join me for some speculation, thoughts, and questions on the sylvari existence!
In a Storm of Souls
Leigh states that the sylvari are very aware of the vices of the world. They hold honor dear, actively seek to enlighten themselves, and generally despise misdoings. Leigh even goes far as to state that they are close to the Arthurian concept of knights and even hold very romanticized views of love, duty, and loyalty. Obviously, as also stated, they are not without their own diversity but this seems to be the color of their race, just as the charr and norn both have their own racial color while still retaining diversity.
Considering however how other races, such as the humans in particular, hold a far more fluid view of the world, I’m left wondering how the sylvari see such cultures and also wonder how this will effect their growth. They’re the very mothers and fathers of a sapling culture and society. Think of how far we humans have come in all our time existing, of how much has changed in the past 250 years.
A brief thought, but that’s one of the largest questions I came away with after reading today’s entry. The sylvari may very well be the children Leigh insists they can never become.
Beware the Pale Tree’s Shade
Another tidbit I am deeply interested, somewhat related to the sylvari soul and personality, is the Nightmare Court. I’ll admit to not knowing very much about it, but I think that’s universal at this point. Please correct me if I’m wrong. What I do know is that one of the Firstborn, Faolain, embraced the nightmares existing within the Pale Tree and has been trying to convert others. No one understands the nightmares, or even truly knows why they exist, but those of the Nightmare Court can flame these dreams by committing dark deeds.
Just as with the other sylvari, the experiences of the Nightmare Court are added to the Pale Tree and it is their hope that in this manner they can corrupt the Pale Tree herself.
For whatever reason. I’m sure it’s a complex portion of the sylvari storyline, but ultimately what we have here are dark elves. Still, it remains an interesting contrast to the typical sylvari existence and is worth some thought. What will the Nightmare Court do once they corrupt the Pale Tree? What is their view on the other races? Supposedly even the sylvari of the Nightmare Court despise the elder dragons and retain their desire to see them defeated, so are they willing to work with the other races and are the other races willing to accept them as a sylvari subculture?
What do the sylvari as a whole think of their darker kin? A blight to be destroyed via crusade? Lost lambs to be saved? Simply an alternative choice? Do sylvari elders allow freshly born sylvari the free choice between remaining or joining the Court? So many questions, with nary an answer in sight. If anything however these topics have the potential to add some strong flavor and deep complexity to the sylvari and their ingame stories, so here’s looking to some nice twists and surprises. I’ll admit to being more than a little excited. ;)
Guild Wars…3?
In this time of war and strife, and especially given the ideals of the sylvari, their presence can only be considered a blessing. Yet when I think of the future, I’m left to wonder. Could the sylvari be amongst the most powerful races to ever exist in Tyria? They have adapted well and in some cases have even matched what has taken the other races countless years to obtain. Their culture only took twenty-five years to enrich itself into a blend of moral ideals, philosophy, and thirst for knowledge.
They don’t have a child-like stage, effectively saving them some fifteen years of weakness and dependency, and the Dream of Dream gives them an even greater head start when compared to the youths of other races. What then, a hundred years into the future, when the Pale Tree is ripened by countless experiences obtained from the sylvari?
Humans (in reality) have advanced because we compounded on the work of those who came before, creating a stepping stone system of sorts, but even this is extremely limited. What if a sylvari saw the toiling of a great engineer as their embryonic dream, then eventually decided to research his work and become one herself. The pieces would fall together much more quickly this way, I’d assume!
Given the same chance as the other races to grow I feel that the sylvari are in a position to easily surpass them, though I can’t say what this might mean for the future. What will be born of these seeds? New magic? Vast improvements on charr technology? A future where the sylvari empire stretches across all the lands, a world where they enforce peace using their endlessly growing knowledge and numbers?
I don’t know, but it’s an interesting thought.
------------------------
Apogee
Fahrar Cub
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Washington DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
He does make a point, though. When you don't "play by any rules" and have no morals to hold you back, you can really accomplish a lot domination-wise. Kindness can really be a weakness as much as a strength...
That's only true when thinking of individuals in a small time frame. Ultimately on the scale of civilizations and generations the moral path is more powerful because it provides a framework to pool resources. Evil just does not scale well.
That can be a hard lesson to learn because to an individual the rule does not hold. There is no guarantee that your particular good deeds will be rewarded. Bad things do indeed happen to good people.
Although as with all things, either extreme is not the best solution. A pacifist must eventually use the power of the community it creates to ensure the common good, be it through something as grand as war to something as small as a fine.
On an unrelated note, I'm really starting to feel the pull of the asura. Now that I see that they can have a little bit of an edge to them, I've become realy intrigued. I can't wait for next week.
nurt
Seraph Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: http://nocapsever.blogspot.com/
interesting to note that even though sylvari don't age, Malomedies is likened to an "ancient oak, massive branches unyielding against the storm" and later survives being scarred, withered and splintered.
all of which might give some hope anyone who'd like to make a sylvari that looks more rugged, worn, and weathered. maybe even sylvari that look a bit aged, or less frail than the norm. Malomedies is also described as being slender, graceful and beautiful though, at least before the scarring, so the 'ancient oak' and 'massive unyielding branches' may be entirely a reflection of personality, and not an indication of physical characteristics.
Nohjo
Pale Tree Seedling
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
Awww but Lyssa, you would make such a good sylvari.
I think Lyssa fits the sylvari more then Dwayna. And if anyone, the Pale tree would be Melandru. (Seeing that Melandru is half tree herself. )
Lyssa fits the sylvari because of their innate duality. Nightmare court/Ventari tablet.
It could be that the Gods are present in different forms around tyria. It could be that the Gods do not even exist as Gods, but just as powerful beings, like the asura claim.
On topic: Awesome blog post, I'm really eager to learn more about the Pale tree and her subconcious dream. (Guess I'm born during the dusk. :P )
Regina Buenaobra
ArenaNet
Join Date: Aug 2009
Greetings! Ree took a break from her busy schedule (and preparing for gamescom) to respond to a few points that emerged in response to her blog post.
Quote:
I wanted to respond to a few things about my recent blog post. Hope you don’t mind the interruption!
*Cadeyrn’s fall from grace happens over the course of a few years, not all at once; the events are separated in time. There is a total passage of about five years from the beginning to the end of the story. It feels a bit ‘rushed’ because it’s all told in succession, as the blog posts have to be, to try to keep them small. The firstborn came from the tree, then six or seven years passed, and then the secondborn… and then more generations, each coming closer in time together and producing larger groups, until we get to the present day, where sylvari are being born… oh, about as fast as players are making characters.
*Caithe didn’t realize how cruel her words were at the end of Cadeyrn’s discussion with the Pale Tree. She was simply trying to tell him a fact. Caithe made a mistake. As she’s had less socialization (all that traveling around), she didn’t understand how her words would sound. More than once, she’s regretted them - it is a bitter irony, in hindsight, that Caithe was the last straw that encouraged Cadeyrn to embrace nightmare, and in turn, nightmare took Faolain from her.
*Riannoc is not the sylvari who went to Orr. You do know that sylvari’s name, but you won’t know the story until you get to play GW2.
*Silvernis: of the four race week "Friday stories" we've seen thus far, this is unfortunately the least polished in terms of writing.
-You’re absolutely correct. Although the lore’s accurate, between how long this blog entry was (all the new stuff!) and the fact that we were hitting deadlines for GamesCon, I think the article could have used one more editing pass. You have my apologies, and thank you for being kind in your critique!
*The twelve Firstborn were divided among the cycles, three to each cycle. I think you have nine of their names so far. I’ll also note for the record that yes, Caithe is Night; Faolain is of the Cycle of Dusk. The am-pm turning of the hours mentioned in my post are less hard-set than they appear in the article. Rodinia & the others commenting on this are correct in that there’s fluctuation in the precise ‘clock hour’ between the cycles at any given time (or during Tyria’s seasons).
*Vahsyl: Stop reading my Secret Book of Lore, you scoundrel.
Thanks for the wonderful lore arguments, guys. I love reading the forums!
-------
http://www.nancy.cc/2008/03/17/how-to-pronounce-popular-irish-names-aoife-cian-niamh-oisin/
Aoife is pronounced EE-fa. Niamh is pronounced NEE-av or NEEV.
Caderyn = (kad ER in)
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/sylvari-soul-angel-mccoy-writing-t20014p20.html
Lunkhead
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wymsical
That is a rather grim implication... being implanted with some terribly gruesome memories through no fault of your own... If this is the case, it would bring a very intriguing side to the Nightmare Court.
Would be great, because that's what I was trying to argue about while everyone ignored and went on about sex, being just as subjective as a Sylvari ironic enough.
The section where I was referring to as how maybe the Nightmare Court isn't the "evil" that we may think, but misaligned by their experiences in the Pale Tree's Dreams/Nightmare. It really brings a subjectivity to it and makes arguing for and against it even more complex...it's a morally ambiguous line and that's probably why Caithe can endure Faolain without killing Faolain apart from their emotional ties, and explains the dueling aspect as well. If their logic is based on experiences and emotions, then it'd baffle a militarily pragmatic Charr who would have no patience with the Nightmare Court and seek to eradicate them much like the Flame Legion.
Since the Nightmare isn't the Charr's problem this is not the case, but just drawing a parallel.
With that said, it would make sense that the Nightmare Court probably live among the Sylvari and there are no segregation in Sylvari culture whatsoever.
Spiritual Machine
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavx
Here's a question. If sylvari are plants, do they breathe?
If they don't breathe like other creatures do, then does it make sense for them to have a breathing apparatus during underwater content?
If not, then how does the drowning state work with them?
Well if you think about it pragmatically, they'd need some manner of lungs in order to produce speech.
And lungs are one of the more efficient ways of getting air into the body. Our muscles require a constant feeding of oxygen to function, and require much more in order to do more strenuous work. Sylvari are different from plants in that they can move, and there for burn many, many more precious calories by moving, or even simply by standing still, as one's muscles must constantly flex and shift to keep one's balance. Having lungs would complement a humanoid body. I'm not saying they do have lungs, or have muscles as we know them, or breathe oxygen, but I'm saying it's certainly plausible.
Even if they breathe carbon dioxide, they'd still have a hard time getting it from underwater. You CAN drown a plant, you know. Not all of them survive underwater, and Sylvari certainly seem land-based.
All of this adds up to them benefiting from a breathing apparatus though, which they do in-game.
As for breathing through their skin or something, did you know amphibians can breathe through their skin? Even humans can to some degree. This still isn't necessarily helpful underwater if one's skin cannot draw air from the water. And if that was all Sylvari could do to get air, then maybe nothing short of a special suit would help them under there...
Lunkhead
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual Machine
It's about identity, a focal point in a sylvari's personal story.
"There is no greater mystery worth exploring than the Self." (How Jungian of them.)
Does THAT make sense to you?
This. I agree that identity and individuality will come from them. They each receive individual memories, they each have their individual feelings and experiences, they're not just one plant, they're many types melded together that embody a Sylvari and makes them particularly distinct.
I know for sure that I will be able to spot a Sylvari from a distance now and understand what they're going through as a race, because they have JUST become that. They have no stories other than drawing upon inconsistent memory. They're nature's databanks that will probably record the history of Tyria from here on out if there will be a Tyria to record after the Dragons...
Such challenges are involved with the question of gender identity, which the Sylvari seem to not be shamed or embarrassed about compared to Humans. Since it seems to be very naturalist type of approach, to them nudity is probably not a self-conscious issue either, and that involves territory of intimacy and sexual activities. They just don't have a rigid sense of ethics implanted or rooted into their society just yet. Other than the codes written under the tablets which I assume are merely guidelines... They're still very much experimenting in regards to every subject without being ashamed or conscious about it. But that can also be a big threat to other races. It's a double edge for them.
The question is, can other races accept them for the fact they are plants without just hacking them down or snuffing them out of existence as we would to a blade of grass? With no regard and of no consequence..because for all you know..Sylvari could just made of voodoo magic inside with a plant-like appearance as an illusion. Or is their society much more than that due to their potential to grow and cultivate a race? (Which includes all taboo and every cultural issues, whether they view them as a major issue or not.) But that can also be a big threat to other races, if each are intent on competing for the future of Tyria by themselves. It's a double edge for them since they are born into a world that knows no mercy as much as nature. The big part is that they're conscious and sentient, so they have to have a say apparently, and define their culture by unconventional means, whether they are indifferent to procreation but enjoy an emotional and physical response from it, with the same regard to any curiosity they approach, being able to touch, smell, taste, see, hear it all is the definite all in order to become a real being of conscious state.
The elders must have one hell of a responsibility.
Symbiont
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Mar 2011
so as we create our sylvari ingame, will we get the chance to see our-self bash to the ground while emerging from the pods?
and while we look around we see sylvari pop out their pods from the ground and even sylvari who didn't made it and lying death on the ground.
if they depict this gruesome scenario as our starting ground with the contrast of a world that looks like a luminescence fantasy... i would just be happy to see this kind of raw nature.
Symbiont
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronan
Brilliant idea, I approve.
i don't expect many to agree with such visual violence, especially not as a starter area. but personally, i'm very intrigued to see such a contrast so visual and not just the pink fantasy side of things. a bit like tim burtons take on fantasy, just a tad bit more gruesome.
anyway, the falling from the tree scenario has been described in the audio-clip, but a visual depiction of this would make more impact. and i think that this aspect would set the sylvari as a race far apart from other fantasy nature-races. (it's not all pretty and such)
Zungx
Golem Rider
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Shiverpeaks
I could easily see the dead sylvari in a secret area of the Grove or the Sylvari starting area. Maybe one sylvari who greets you upon "birth," mentioning how every sylvari is born fresh and alive. Then you find a secret alcove with a bunch of dead sylvari in pods where it can be inferred that they throw all the "failed" ones.
Lunkhead
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Black Citadel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amannelle
Well, actually, the nightmare court is very likely right about them being the more "true" form of Sylvari. I'm quite certain the natural sylvari is feral and violent in nature, while the Pale Tree has been influenced greatly by idealists who want peace more than anything.
That makes it quite difficult to decide on a side...curse you sympathetic villains! But it's like the whole race is innocent and doesn't need the corruption and jaded or cynical view of the world. I have an urge to protect them..
Damn you nature vs. nurture!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimaru
Count on it. I'm sure the clean air will do you good, what with all that smoke in the air of the Black Citadel.
I think I have a lot more to worry about rather than all that smog. Like Dragons raining death above us...but yes, I agree. I look forward to using the Grove as a place of recluse and quiet. It'll be a definite change of pace.
Faowri
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eggman
Everyone talking about the sylvari using the hoe...was I the only one who thought, like all sylvari, that she was curious about the tool and why the other races use it? As others have pointed out as well, she sounds frustrated while using it. Just my take on it.
I love this interpretation so much that I now refuse to believe anything else. It's hilarious.
Amannelle
Legion Commander
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Grove
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eggman
Everyone talking about the sylvari using the hoe...was I the only one who thought, like all sylvari, that she was curious about the tool and why the other races use it? As others have pointed out as well, she sounds frustrated while using it. Just my take on it.
That's a BRILLIANT take on it! Oh man, I hope they have her make some comment in-game like "Maybe I'm supposed to use the other side of it?" or something to that extent.
(And no "that's what she said" jokes, now. >_<)
------------------------
« Home Sweet Sylvari Home
Why Do Sylvari Have Boobs?
August 11, 2011 by Randomessa
Or, Sexual Dimorphism in Guild Wars 2
Now that the sylvari have made their grand re-entrance in numerous articles in gaming news, this is a question that has been popping up as those who haven’t been following GW2 (or simply not following as rabidly as others) get exposed to this new race. So, why is it, folks wonder, that a race of sentient plant people whose bodies are mere illusions of humanoid forms, have secondary sex characteristics such as breasts (or beards; nobody seems to ask why sylvari have beards)?
It begins with the story of a man and a centaur. The human Ronan, upon finding his village had been slaughtered by the White Mantle and their Mursaat, planted a seed on his family’s graves, vowing to live peacefully from that point onward. He was later befriended by a centaur named Ventari, who shared Ronan’s ideals despite the violent history shared between their respective peoples.
After Ronan died, Ventari tended to the sapling that grew upon the human graves, and wrote his thoughts and life lessons on a tablet that he laid at the base of the tree. The sylvari were later born from this Pale Tree, taking the human forms from the land that nurtured it. Hence, boobs. And beards.
If you remember that their "modesty flowers" are part of them, you realize they're actually naked.
While sylvari do have gender, they act entirely without regard to gender with respect to life, chivalry, and love.
…traditional human-style gender roles have no meaning to sylvari, either in their society or in their romantic relationships. Often, a sylvari’s ardor is expressed with courtly zeal-emotional, empathic, personal-and is not necessarily defined by gender.
Angel McCoy, ArenaNet
I think I can safely say, based on the above information, that the reason for the mammalian protrusions is not purely for titillation. First of all, ArenaNet can do better than that for titillation’s sake (see: Norn females, below). Second of all, the following races exist to show that ArenaNet does know what to do with races that have no good biological reason for D-cups:
Charr
Charr male (L), charr female (R)
As might be expected from our knowledge of cats, female charr do not have visible breasts.
I gave them a choice: either be subtle and downplay the breasts (it wasn’t a point of the race, anyway) or go full-on realistic. Yes, that’s right -none or six!!
-Kristen Perry, ArenaNet
Instead, they are distinguished from male charr by the size and placement of their horns and teeth, a slightly sleeker head shape and a bushier tail. More on the breast issue (and the other issues related to designing the charr) here.
Asura
Asura female (L), asura male (R)
Here is the final example of a race that does not slap breasts onto the female characters and call it a day. While more information might be forthcoming about whether asura have teats like charr, or simply lack that characteristic altogether, it is apparent that aside from a few variations in head shape and hairstyle - and perhaps clothing - there is no differentiation between male and female asura. There does not even appear to be a notable height difference between the two.
Now that we’ve covered two races without the typical fantasy sexual dimorphism, and one who act entirely without regard to gender and for whom such differences are mere outward forms, we turn to the familiar.
Norn
What were we saying about titillation?
Here we have possibly the most extreme case of sexual dimorphism in the form of bulk and body structure between the male and female norn. The males seem to be built with a particularly recognizable heft to them, and an allowance for an abundance of hair grooming options on nearly every exposed surface, while the females, unfortunately, venture very close to “large woman” status.
How much we will be able to modify the female norn build and bring it more in line with that of the male is something that I hope we will get to glimpse at the upcoming Gamescom convention. Right now this is probably the most obvious throwback to video game titillation to be found in Guild Wars 2. Fortunately, at least, these female norn can easily break your bones for commenting on their, well, titillation.
Human
Ah, there we go. Nice and reliable and wearing clothes that make sense at a Renaissance Faire. Here you can expect get your usual suspects and a variety of builds (we can hope): men with or without facial hair, slender such as the one above, or perhaps bulkier to a degree currently unknown. Whether women have a slider for their bodice area will be of great interest for those watching the convention footage coming in next week.
All in all, I think ArenaNet has done a good job avoiding many of the tropes and stereotypes about male/female appearance, dress, and behavior when it comes to their race design. We have breasted sylvari who engage in chivalry, asura and charr who don’t have breasts, norn females who drink and fight with the best of them, and humans who are led by a queen with no king in sight.
So the next time someone asks if female sylvari have breasts in order to satisfy the 14-year old male audience, simply challenge them to a duel with your female sylvari character; may the best sylvari win.
Rends with Tongue
Asuran Acolyte
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NY
It might just be my interpretation of the Nightmare Court, but I think a lot of people are either focusing on one aspect but ignoring the others or simply can't fathom the machinations of the faction -- which, arguably, is kind of the point. If you could readily empathize and understand the Nightmare Court, then you could consider yourself a similarly depraved individual (not really, but you get the point).
If I were to liken the Court to anything, I'd say the Sabbat of the World of Darkness game, Vampire the Masquerade; they're vampires following alien paths of morality, having long since abandoned their own humanity. In this case, the Sylvari of the Court have abandoned the dream in favor of a new ideological path based on the notion that the Pale Tree has been corrupted by Ventari's teachings which could give rise to the theory that the Pale Mother is either already corrupt, or she is being manipulated; the Court (in my opinion) desires to purge her of these flaws through the Nightmare. If the aforementioned thoughts are accurate, then they are acting on the noblest of notions to protect a mother-in-need. I think as normal humans, we easily attribute "nightmare" with being evil, but in reality, it's simply analogous to the Dream.
I don't deny that their described actions are morally reprehensible, I just think that they might be better perceived as individuals an alien path of morality -- more alien than the Sylvari themselves already are in regards to the other races of Tyria -- and it might be easier for the Sylvari of the Nightmare Court to follow this dark path because they are either so new, or because they've had the luxury of being born into a world with some level of apriori knowledge and the cognitive capacity (at birth) to understand the information, as well as form views and opinions on it.
So to sum it up... I don't think that calling them "cartoony" really explains or expounds on their actual nature, which is simply too harrowing a morality for us normal people to understand. Nor do I consider them 'cliched, boring baddies'. By very way of their innate age and youth, they kind of evoke this 'dangerous immortal' thing (in my mind) that sort of explains how and why they can act the way they do. They enjoy it, but it also serves a grander purpose; they are still Sylvari, and through the Nightmare, they will hold to the standards of Nobility, Beauty and the third thing that I cannot recall as having been stated as one of the three things used to describe the Sylvari.
And I know that by my explaining this, I've either proved myself to not be a normal person, or that I have no idea what I am talking about.
Arkham Creed
Sylvari Specialist
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Beacon's Perch
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
How do the Sylvari eat? like a pitcher plant?
From Ghosts of Ascalon, chapter ten.
Quote:
“For humans most likely,” said Killeen, “but not for us.” She picked up an oversized drumstick. “This is the leg of a young moa. I know that it is a moa from the Dream, and further that it is well cooked but not over-cooked. I know what it tastes like but have never tasted it mtself.” She took a bite of the leg and chewed for a moment or two. “Chicken,” she said at last, the word muffled by the food in her cheek.
Ring
Vanguard Scout
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Echovald
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkin pie
That's because you accepted what ArenaNet gives you, i do worship them, but if i think things can be better i will say it they've already gone this far to make this a new race in the fantasy realm, hell, they can make a movie just about Sylvari and it would be great. (with the correct director etc , this is another story off course) so why not make it perfect.
I accepted what ArenaNet gave us because I like it. I like that they live in houses and eat food and can act like humans, because if they were different they wouldn't be sylvari any more. I know them now, so I wouldn't want them to change much, if at all.
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Originally Posted by Yojimaru
Their explanation of Sylvari anatomy has been pretty inconsistent. They first say they have wooden bones, then say their facial features aren't constrained to a human skull which kinda gives the impression that they have no skull, then they say wooden skeleton again, then again that their arms are leafs and stems that have come together to form an arm. It's quite confusing. Of course, detailed anatomy isn't something that writers explore outside of certain genres.
I don't think it's contradictory, because the "wooden skeleton" doesn't have to actually follow the form of a human skeleton. If both are true (wooden bones and tightly packed plant material for "flesh"), then it could be that the skeleton is more like a wire armature of the type used for sculpting figures. Those just provide a basic framework to lay the "flesh" (clay or fiber or paper or cloth) on so that it keeps its shape.
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Originally Posted by shadavenger
Loving the lore. Some inquiries:
1. Ventari tablet: Sylvari follow the teachings of the Ventari tablet, so does that mean Sylvari can read? How and when? If they can read the tablet, should also mean they can write? The lore mentioned that they want to develop their own writing system---redundant?
2. Nightmare court: I thought Faolain was the first to turn to the nightmare court and after all she is the Grand Duchess and one of the first born. But the lore mentioned that Cadeyrn is the founder of the courtiers, he sits on his throne, etc...I'm a little confused on this. Some clarifications would be appreciated.
I remember hearing something about the sylvari learning to read within the Dream, and the Pale Tree imparting basic knowledge to them before they're born--how to fight, how to read, how to talk, and so forth. From the context--learning about the languages of Tyria--it sounds more like an attempt to create an alphabet or language specific to their race, which would contribute to their cultural identity.
As for Faolain and Cadeyrn, we haven't been told that story yet, and we'll probably hear more about it in the game.