Paying higher taxes is patriotic?

[lordtorgrin]

So, I came across the following article this morning:  www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20080918/Biden.Taxes/.  As some of you know, I personally believe in having a small government and larger personal freedom.  I also believe in equality.  Here's what I don't understand.  If you have looked at the tax charts, you will find that people who

Comments

[darkphilodox]

One(of many)problems I have with the government is how they can vote to give themselfs raises. They make to damn much money as it is just sitting on there asses.

People in general are just to greedy and always want more and it's going to come back in bite them in the ass sooner than later. Just look how business's are closing in the states and moving to other countries were labor is cheaper.

Ya the government is to big and most in the government make to much money.

We need to stop trying to help everybody else in the world and spend a bit more time helping people in our own country before we dont have one anymore.

You're right, the traditional backbone of American...

[morrigansword]

worker class production is a dying/dead entity!

Our work force/social structure is becoming (has been headed for quite sometime now) a system of corporate/executive "haves", and a service industry of "have nots"! (by "service industry" I mean everything from flipping burgers to any other customer service type job, and also including the bottom end of the corporate world that is the "cubicle slave")...

Re: You're right, the traditional backbone of American...

[lordtorgrin]

I definitely agree. But it leads me to something else... another irritation of mine. As some of you know I have been navigating the world of small business. It is so extraordinarily complex and filled with assorted taxes on lots of levels (The first 9 pages of the Washington state small business guide dedicated to telling you all the due dates, proper places to pay and penalties charged for paying late or incorrectly. This is before they begin to tell you how to figure out what you owe. A friend of mine crossed an earnings threshold and didn't realize that because of it, they were now required to file payment online. The payment went out by check, on time (early actually) as it had for the last year. They ended up owing over $1000 in penalties which they (the state) would not waive even though they paid the proper amount and on time, simply because they paid "the wrong way".) that I don't blame anyone for not wanting to work for themselves anymore. I believe that 50 years ago (maybe sixty cause I'm getting old) something like

[redoubtable1]

www.fairtax.org

Read it, understand it, call your Congresscritters.

[morrigansword]

I think you just answered/trapped yourself, doesn't "proportionally" mean those with a higher income (more money) pay higher taxes while those of a lower income (less money) pay lower taxes?

As for making cuts to big gov., where do we start? Cut even more DSHS/welfare type programs making it even tougher on the nations poor? Or take some out of the top, meaning give politicians/various branches of our gov. pay cuts and pink slips? If the later is the case, which politicians/branches? Military/war funding? Feds/Legislative? Congress? Or???

And honestly, we both know just how far that will fly... it won't, it'll be shot down before it gets off the ground! The poor will take it up the ass before the rich will, as it has always been.

Pitch forks!

Torches!

Angry shouting mob!

;)

Not trapped

[lordtorgrin]

Well I didn't trap myself. If you look at the current tax table you will see that proportionately, people in higher income brackets already pay a higher proportional share of the taxes (the percentage is significantly higher). There is already a wealth re-distribution system in place (heard of earned income credit?) and if you take a look at what people in lower brackets take back on tax day, I think that you'll find that many folks amount to a net loss on taxes. As to tax cuts, you and I both know that government is bloated. To start with, we could just keep them from adding programs on top of programs, or how about not bail out the private sector when it screws up

Re: Not trapped

[morrigansword]

No worries on sounding bitchy, I prefer crotchety

Re: Not trapped

[lordtorgrin]

Indeed. :)

When Torgrin says proportional take this into account:

[redoubtable1]

Please follow this link and scroll to the bottom of the page to view the effective tax rates for 2004 and 2005. (The latest years there is complete data.) Congressional Budget Office: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/88xx/doc8885/EffectiveTaxRates.shtml... )

Re: When Torgrin says proportional take this into account:

[redoubtable1]

I forgot to add this bit, which I think is important:

The bottom 80% of earners in this country ($15K to $85K average yearly salary) pay 13.7% of all taxes paid.
The top 20% (>$231K) pay 86.7% of all the taxes. So is it fair that 1 person in 5 pays for 3 and 1/4 of the other 4?

Oh and the pay ranges don't match up because they are average incomes for the quintile brackets. So that top 20% starts lower than $231K, and all of the others run higher and lower at their extremes.

Re: When Torgrin says proportional take this into account:

[morrigansword]

Bottom 80% pay less/Top 20% pay more... Isn't that what I said? To ask is it fair? I suppose it could be made so that the poor pay more and the rich pay less, making the poor poorer and the rich richer...

Tax consumption, not income... I can almost get behind that!

Tax underground economy... definitely! Although that could have the downside of driving up prices, especially produce (veggies)...(comment here primarily about our immigrant work force).

Encourage investment and savings... sounds great for people with money to spare for that, what about the rest of us?

Bring foreign investment... ok...

Bring back jobs to the US... sounds good, but those companies that have bailed on the US wont come back, look at the profits they're making by spending next to nothing in manufacture and shipping here with reduced import tafiffs, to sell here at maxxed out prices... they're capitalist nature wont allow them to go back to reduced profits!

Next?

Re: When Torgrin says proportional take this into account:

[lordtorgrin]

Couple of points... first getting back to my initial comment. This is taken from 2008 tax table rates for a single person