At a WorldCon back in the 80s I happened to go to a thing about GBL literature (T had not been added yet). Someone mentioned Varley's short story 'Options' and the rest of the room started trashing it. It was one of my favorite stories so I was a bit offended, however I could not articulate why at the time so unfortunately just sat there while they trashed it. For anyone who has not read it: it is about a future where sex changes are common. One guess what all these gay guys thought about it.
I think that some people have real difficulty distinguishing between what they want for themselves and what other people may want or need that they can support without participation.
I have a lot of friends in BDSM communities. BDSM makes me very uncomfortable. I do not really want to read about it, see it, or talk about it in other than very abstract terms. The sum total of my involvement with BDSM consists of my quite vocally advocating that consent must include the consent of *everyone* present not just active participants and then stating my lack of consent. That said I can have friendships with BDSM folks because I don't try to enforce my personal choices on other consenting adults. I won't trash a BDSM book. When I encounter such I will explain why I have no interest in it, but that's different from trashing it.
I also rather freely admit that I don't understand BDSM. That doesn't bother me much.
That division seems to crop up in any human grouping ... religion, favorite foods, whatever. Some people are 'whatever you want, you can even say we are wrong' while others are 'you *must* do the same as us and we are threatened by your existence'.
I find it interesting that often the defenders of the boundaries consist of fringe types who barely fit in while folks who fit comfortably within the group tend to take the more laid back attitude. Exceptions exist, but the correlation across groups seems pretty high from where I sit. I guess maybe folks who almost fall outside the boundaries have a vested interest in maintaining those boundaries in a way that includes them even when it means excluding others. Internalized prejudice and hatred turned outward probably also plays a role sadly enough.
1) I know it has been a while, but I still feel bad about flaking on you last year at the Ohio Lesbian Festival. I was really sick that weekend and the weather was bad and I felt terrible, and couldn't even answer the phone. I'm so sorry.
2) I read this when you first posted and and have been meaning to ask you about:
The loudest and most forthright proponents of Trans Misogyny I have met almost uniformly consisted of self identified lesbians who date Trans Men and the Trans Men who date them.
I would really like to talk to you about this. Are you ever on AIM anymore? Do you do e-mail much? Cuz, yeah.
3) I am moving to Michigan! How crazy is that? I'd like to talk to you about that kind of stuff, too. So, yes. Let's chat some time!
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One of these years I will attend Worldcon.
I think that some people have real difficulty distinguishing between what they want for themselves and what other people may want or need that they can support without participation.
I have a lot of friends in BDSM communities. BDSM makes me very uncomfortable. I do not really want to read about it, see it, or talk about it in other than very abstract terms. The sum total of my involvement with BDSM consists of my quite vocally advocating that consent must include the consent of *everyone* present not just active participants and then stating my lack of consent. That said I can have friendships with BDSM folks because I don't try to enforce my personal choices on other consenting adults. I won't trash a BDSM book. When I encounter such I will explain why I have no interest in it, but that's different from trashing it.
I also rather freely admit that I don't understand BDSM. That doesn't bother me much.
Thanks,
Lorrraine
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I find it interesting that often the defenders of the boundaries consist of fringe types who barely fit in while folks who fit comfortably within the group tend to take the more laid back attitude. Exceptions exist, but the correlation across groups seems pretty high from where I sit. I guess maybe folks who almost fall outside the boundaries have a vested interest in maintaining those boundaries in a way that includes them even when it means excluding others. Internalized prejudice and hatred turned outward probably also plays a role sadly enough.
Thanks,
Lorrraine
Reply
1) I know it has been a while, but I still feel bad about flaking on you last year at the Ohio Lesbian Festival. I was really sick that weekend and the weather was bad and I felt terrible, and couldn't even answer the phone. I'm so sorry.
2) I read this when you first posted and and have been meaning to ask you about:
The loudest and most forthright proponents of Trans Misogyny I have met almost uniformly consisted of self identified lesbians who date Trans Men and the Trans Men who date them.
I would really like to talk to you about this. Are you ever on AIM anymore? Do you do e-mail much? Cuz, yeah.
3) I am moving to Michigan! How crazy is that? I'd like to talk to you about that kind of stuff, too. So, yes. Let's chat some time!
Reply
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