Media

[lulie]

What are the best movies, TV programmes, books (fiction and non-fiction), and songs/music, with philosophical content? (Or if they're just really good. But if they're really good, they should have philosophical content.) Examples: Iron Man, House, Atlas Shrugged, Conjectures & Refutations. List all the most awesome stuff you've found.

Comments

[konora]

Watchmen. Defintely Watchmen.

And Animorphs, for being a young adult book series, had a lot of moral and philosophical content about the nature of war, otherness, etc.

[lulie]

Isn't Watchmen really dark, and there are like, no *good* chatacters? (I haven't read it, but that's what I've heard.) And anti-Rand?

[amidoh]

Something can still be a good read while being anti-Rand though from what I've heard it's not anti-Rand at all. You just have to RAGE while reading it.

[konora]

Really dark and with no absolutely good characters, yes. I'd say it was dystopian, but an extremely good read anyway. The "main" character, Rorschach, reminds me in some ways of Rand's sort of characters, with a very hard and fast view of what's right and wrong in his view. Him and The Comedian are both portrayed that way, albeit to different ends. But I would definitely say that Watchmen has a much different tone than any Rand I've read. I'm in the process of reading the comic, and a little over halfway through, so if things change I'll revise my statement. But thus far it has very interesting characters with a variety of flaws. The morality of the characters is very much left open for the reader to interpret, but given such a wide variety of them to choose from, I don't think it'd be too hard to pick at least one that was morally good from any one person's perspective

[ockeroid]

I'm assuming you mean good philosophical content. (I'd actually be interested in just a list of all movies, etc with good philosophy regardless of how good the film/etc is, cuz there are so few in general).

Dexter, FH, some episodes of SP and possibly Leon, I don't remember.

What good philosophy did Iron Man have other than some integrity stuff? (It's pro-American, but loads of films are that).

Oh, A.I. and the Bicentennial man may have some good stuff in them. I've not seen either in quite a few years, but I remember them both being pretty awesome as films and they're both about robots and what counts as human. They have potential.

On a similar note, but less philosophy, Terminator 2 is a super good film and it has some philosophy about robots/A.I. and a little on morality, but I don't remember so much.

Iron Giant also has a liiiittle on robots and stuff, but it's got terrible philosophy about weapons.

All I can think of for the mo. Will post if I think of more.

[ockeroid]

It makes me sad that I can't think of any games :(

I guess their nature is a bit different tho.

Anyway, hopefully the future will bring us some (or there are some I'm not aware of yet)!

[lulie]

Iron Man was a good character who was rich, smart, valued money, valued America, and kicked terrorist ass.

[shadowspinner]

I can see how that is ideological content but I'm struggling to see the philosophical side. Moar explanation please? :3

[timmyson]

Apropos of ockeroid's reference to some Asmiov stories: I, Robot (the book), a collection of short stories (half to an hour read each) about the progression of designs of robots, philosophical/psychological mysteries along the way, and a real brain-teaser sort of aspect.

Books: Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card, Contact - Carl Sagan, Stardust - Neil Gaiman (I've only heard the audio-book), Wicked - Gregory MacGuire, To Kill A Mockingbird - Harper Lee, Terry Pratchett (see movies)

Games: Deus Ex (I haven't played the sequel), there are pages devoted online to the philosphical choices you can make, like pacifism (with a lot of extra work), in the game.

TV/Movies: The Hogfather (BBC miniseries, based on Terry Pratchett novel which I haven't read), Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, Big Fish, Babylon 5 (horrendous acting, often, but thoughtful and thoroughly fleshed-out politics and political philosophy).

I'm sure I'll think of more in the middle of the night.

[lulie]

What's good about To Kill A Mockingbird? I've only ever heard it mentioned when people at school complain about it.

What did you like about Hogfather (esp WRT philosophical content)? And Big Fish? (It's been a while since I saw either.)

I'll check out the others.

[timmyson]

To Kill A Mockingbird - It really cemented my ideas about the potential value to society in codified law promoting not just legal, but social justice. It also formed the basis for my beliefs in the value of lawyers as part of the justice process, and of the value in being able to retain qualified legal representation. It was also my first introduction to the idea that without codified discrimination, persecution can still exist that pushes people to desperate acts. Also just a really good book, I thought, though I haven't read it in a while

[l1berty]

Agree about To Kill A Mockingbird, but for totally different reasons. The main characters are children, so there's lots of insight into the awesomeness of childhood. Their father, Atticus Finch, is a great character. He's really morally conscientious, so he's always trying to explain morality to the kids. It's very beautiful.

[trenchcoatkid]

WHY YOU BOTHER ASKING FOR RECCOMENDATIONS?! YOU SHOULD BE AT MY HOUSE, HONING YOUR TF2 SKILLS, WOMAN!! D:<

Also, perhaps not from a moral standpoint but from a fun-ness standpoint, I find Avatar: The Last Airbender and Gargoyles, the first two seasons, to be fun cartoons. As for TV series, well, I like Firefly, I like My Name Is Earl, and I find myself drawn to Burn Notice (seen the first few episodes and apart from the boob-flashing, because it's set in Miami and there have to be bikini-clad orange-colored women, it's awesome).

Given time I could probably think up more stuff... ooh, have you read V for Vendetta yet? Comic, not movie. From what I remember, pretty trippy and kind of fun. Also, Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog.

I'll think up more later.

[lulie]

I should see more Avatar. And maybe finally get into Firefly...

I haven't read the comic, but I didn't like the morality of the film. Stupid glorifying terrorism (more strong for me, because I live in England where we celebrate Guy Fawkes Night. He was not a cool guy).

I saw most of the first episode of Burn Notice and it looked hella sweet. I'm intending to watch the series when I go back.

[shadowspinner]

I mostly just thought the film was really, really bad. Though the eggy in a basket moment has given me many, many glorious opportunities to laugh at what ignorant foreigners think of England

[lulie]

I think the film suggested that it was *our* government who was corrupt or fascist or whatever, which is absurd given the context.

[l1berty]

Orwell.

For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway. (Not exactly Randian, but still has philosophical content.)

G&S. (Of those you haven't seen, I recommend The Sorcerer and maybe The Gondoliers, but you ought to see the others again.)

Shakespeare. (Try Henry V; Hamlet; Macbeth.)

I would recommend some (more) music, but I can't see how music can be more/less 'philosophical'. How would that be different from more/less good?

Ditto on My Name is Earl. :3

[lulie]

What sort of philosophical content does For Whom ... have?

What is good about Shakespeare?

Music: Bad philosophy: Wagner. Good philosophy: Rush (read the lyrics of their The Trees). Too bad Rush is a bit, um, well I wouldn't put that band on a list of excellent music. Or, I might. I should listen to them more. Good: uplifting, good stuff. Bad: music based on the idea that music is subjective, like avant-garde.

[shadowspinner]

I am curious as to what specifically you think is bad about Shakespeare? Or indeed as to whether the implication of your question is that there is nothing good about Shakespeare, and therefore in your view everything about his work is bad. Am I reading too much into this? ^^;;

[lulie]

I didn't say there was anything bad about Shakespeare, but I assumed that he's a bit old hat these days. I mean, presumably we've progressed a lot and know much better how to write stories now. And it's not like there was much in the way of good philosophy in those days.