Ok, so it's a crazy peeve of mine that comes up periodically. Since its come up, and I haven't written much on my LJ lately, here it is... grrrr!arggggg
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Well, it´s relevant to me, since I live in the Southern Hemisphere and the Autumn came upon us ;-) ; me and my group will celebrate the Feast on Sunday, and we´ve never called it "Mabon" (specially because our Welsh expert would have a stroke if we did ;-) )but simply "Autumn" or "Equinox" or "Harvest´s End". Thank you very much for sharing it! May I translate it to Portuguese and pass it to people here in Brazil?
Just one small note: Apollo Maponus does occur in Romano-British inscriptions in the Hadrian's Wall area, so he's not confined to the Continent.
I've always thought that the one date we can, with certainty (although somewhat tentatively) attach to Mabon is Kalan Mai/Beltaine, because Pryderi's bith (and he looks to be a "Mabon-figure") is specifically attached to that date in the First Branch of the Mabinogi. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Samain does come up in Aislinge Oengusso, doesn't it? So, there are good reasons to attach these different forms of him to these different dates (with the latter being the preeminent Irish holiday, and the former being the primary Welsh one), but not to (either) Equinox, of course.
Anyway, much to think about--and good to hear from you! (I shall write you an e-mail soon...have been meaning to, but much has been going on...)
Bealtaine is the most obvious choice in my mind, but Samhain does indeed come up in Aislinge Oengusso, when he and Caer finally get together. If I remember correctly, a Samhain celebration is also supported by the Dairmait and Grainne story, as that is the time that his foster-son (incarnation?) goes on the boar hunt and dies. Also I think the story of Aengus's birth takes place at Samhain, but I'm at work (over-night on-call shift at the hospital) so my books are not at hand.
---and yes please do email me when you get the chance. :)
His birth is a bit tricky--because the Dagda's machinations cause it to take place for nine-months-which-are-not-nine-months-and-just-look-like-one-day, as you may recall. I don't think there is anything suggesting Samain in any versions of that, but I could be mistaken. There is an entry in the Annals of Tigernach which discusses someone in the 8th or 9th century, if I remember correctly, going to Newgrange on Samain to divine events for the coming year...which would make some sense of the shift from new year at Winter Solstice to Samain instead, and as a result the folklore of a site shifting as well (although one would have to make that suggestion at great spans of time, but still...).
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me and my group will celebrate the Feast on Sunday, and we´ve never called it "Mabon" (specially because our Welsh expert would have a stroke if we did ;-) )but simply "Autumn" or "Equinox" or "Harvest´s End".
Thank you very much for sharing it!
May I translate it to Portuguese and pass it to people here in Brazil?
Reply
Reply
Just one small note: Apollo Maponus does occur in Romano-British inscriptions in the Hadrian's Wall area, so he's not confined to the Continent.
I've always thought that the one date we can, with certainty (although somewhat tentatively) attach to Mabon is Kalan Mai/Beltaine, because Pryderi's bith (and he looks to be a "Mabon-figure") is specifically attached to that date in the First Branch of the Mabinogi. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Samain does come up in Aislinge Oengusso, doesn't it? So, there are good reasons to attach these different forms of him to these different dates (with the latter being the preeminent Irish holiday, and the former being the primary Welsh one), but not to (either) Equinox, of course.
Anyway, much to think about--and good to hear from you! (I shall write you an e-mail soon...have been meaning to, but much has been going on...)
Reply
Bealtaine is the most obvious choice in my mind, but Samhain does indeed come up in Aislinge Oengusso, when he and Caer finally get together. If I remember correctly, a Samhain celebration is also supported by the Dairmait and Grainne story, as that is the time that his foster-son (incarnation?) goes on the boar hunt and dies. Also I think the story of Aengus's birth takes place at Samhain, but I'm at work (over-night on-call shift at the hospital) so my books are not at hand.
---and yes please do email me when you get the chance. :)
Reply
Anyway, yes, I shall write soon!
Reply
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