i guess i dont believe in coincidences. you can call me superstitious, but i truly believe the steps of a man are ordained by the Lord, not to say i have no freedom but to be completely honest with myself as He is the potter and i have no freedom outside of God.You are setting up a false dilemma. Let 'C' represent the view that there are coincidences, and 'O' that God ordains all things. Let 'v' refer to a disjunction, i.e., to an "or." Now, CvO is a false dilemma, which is to say that there is another option. Let us call C&O the third option, and expand the previous options to C&~O and ~C&O (where '&' means 'and' and '~' stands for 'not'). Thus the disjunction looks like this: (C&~O) v (~C&O) v (C&O). (Let us assume that ~C&~O is false.) You haven't provided any reason to think that God cannot ordain coincidences to occur
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God's hand being in all things doesn't have anything to do with my point about the possibility that God's hand is even in coincidences.
In the Job passage, God breath creates ice. Since God is not a body, this must be taken metaphorically. We interpret the unclear passages of Scripture inlight of the clear, and the Bible clearly shows that God is the sustainer of all existent things (Acts 17:28, Rom 11:36, Col 1:16-7, Heb 1:3, 2:10, Rev 4:11). So God creates ice, clouds, etc. in his single, eternal act of bringing the entirety of the world into existence (including all points of time, not a progression of points). Since I don't seem to be getting across my point, let me return to the example of Tom and the pot of gold.
God wills Tom's being in the field. God wills the pot of gold's being in the field. God wills that these states of affairs occur simultaneously. But we just don't know if God wills that Tom be in the field in order to find the pot of gold. It could be a coincidence that he finds the pot of God, because God's
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heh. you said pot of God. anyway, i do see your reasoning, i really just dont think that way, i believe Gods sovereignty chokes the life out of coincidence but i know that i rarely agree with anyone concerning His sovereign control so ill stop with the tom and gold analogy.
does it tell you what purpose Hurricane Katrina had?
all things have been created through Him and for Him. that is its purpose for Him, it may serve other causes that God glorify God, but this is its core purpose. this isnt speculation, its taken from scripture.
Does sin glorify God?
thats a trick question. because the end result of sin will always be repentance and that glorifies God. and i know i keep saying this but we along with the rest of creation were subjected to futility in hope. so while our falleness causes us to fall short of His glory, He was glorified in subjecting us in hope of freeing us.
i like that you make me think and get in the word to more fully understand what i believe. it feels like good excersize.
I have another thought to add. God wills all events. However, will you grant the possibility that instead of willing the state of affairs Jones buys a cola, God instead wills the following disjunction of two mutually exclusive states of affairs: Jones buys a cola or Jones does not buy a cola? If so, then God has determined that one or the other will happen, but has not chosen to cause one or the other to happen. He sustains the being of Jones, but leaves the choice to Jones. In other words, his foreknowledge is not determinative of Jones' doing one act or the other.
I personally don't agree with this view for reasons I shall not go into at present, but such a view doesn't seem to be logically impossible. Is it beyond the omnipotence of God, then, to will a disjunctive state of affairs? (That is, is it impossible for God to leave it open which way things will go?)
God has determined that one or the other will happen, but has not chosen to cause one or the other to happen. He sustains the being of Jones, but leaves the choice to Jones.
The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps." -proverbs 16:9
i dont believe so because things arent just left open, He is in control of all things.
"who works all things after the counsel of His will" would seem to cover all aspects of the question, unnecessary and excessive permutations of logic nothwithstanding
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In the Job passage, God breath creates ice. Since God is not a body, this must be taken metaphorically. We interpret the unclear passages of Scripture inlight of the clear, and the Bible clearly shows that God is the sustainer of all existent things (Acts 17:28, Rom 11:36, Col 1:16-7, Heb 1:3, 2:10, Rev 4:11). So God creates ice, clouds, etc. in his single, eternal act of bringing the entirety of the world into existence (including all points of time, not a progression of points). Since I don't seem to be getting across my point, let me return to the example of Tom and the pot of gold.
God wills Tom's being in the field. God wills the pot of gold's being in the field. God wills that these states of affairs occur simultaneously. But we just don't know if God wills that Tom be in the field in order to find the pot of gold. It could be a coincidence that he finds the pot of God, because God's ( ... )
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does it tell you what purpose Hurricane Katrina had?
all things have been created through Him and for Him. that is its purpose for Him, it may serve other causes that God glorify God, but this is its core purpose. this isnt speculation, its taken from scripture.
Does sin glorify God?
thats a trick question. because the end result of sin will always be repentance and that glorifies God. and i know i keep saying this but we along with the rest of creation were subjected to futility in hope. so while our falleness causes us to fall short of His glory, He was glorified in subjecting us in hope of freeing us.
i like that you make me think and get in the word to more fully understand what i believe. it feels like good excersize.
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I personally don't agree with this view for reasons I shall not go into at present, but such a view doesn't seem to be logically impossible. Is it beyond the omnipotence of God, then, to will a disjunctive state of affairs? (That is, is it impossible for God to leave it open which way things will go?)
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The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps." -proverbs 16:9
i dont believe so because things arent just left open, He is in control of all things.
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