On knight/royal pairings
From the way the Seth/Eirika supports go, one might assume that marriages between royalty and their knights are forbidden in Magvel. The way the entire Ismaire/Carlyle fiasco plays out lends this some support, and a good deal of fanfic and meta uses this assumption as a springboard in any event.
On examination, though, is it really the case? ( Read more... )
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I guess the only explanation I could cook up is that maybe Rausten had gotten wind of some of the Ephraim propaganda floating around Grado? I mean, Rennac cites it when you recruit him with Ephraim, after all.
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I mean, Rennac cites it when you recruit him with Ephraim, after all.
Hahah, that's true. Maybe Rausten believes the Grado propaganda machine. That's as plausible an explanation as anything...
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L'Arachel: If she's a beloved figure in her country, they probably wouldn't want her to leave. I mean, after a big war and everything, her up and packing might make them feel that they're being abandoned or something.
Seth/Eirika: I guess I always took his objections to be a combination of what you mentioned with a side-order of This is not the time or place. Because REALLY, in the middle of a full-scale war? They can't really afford to let other people think she's showing favoritism--it might screw with morale or make people lax, and with a military going to war, you really do need a firm hand and nothing but strict order ( ... )
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I could get behind that 100% if her marriage to Innes attracted the same "tumult," which it doesn't. Very odd.
and with a military going to war, you really do need a firm hand and nothing but strict order.
She pretends to panty-flash Forde. :/
but seriously, the middle of a war is not the time to make that obvious
I agree with you, and to a certain extent the game script agrees with you (hello, Eph/Tana supports), but on the one hand you have Vanessa fangirling Innes all over the damn place, Eirika joking around with Forde, and Ephraim potentially bonding with Kyle to the point where he singles Kyle out for special attention-- "Treat this man as you would my own brother."
So... mixed messages. Definitely.
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Oh man. I guess you could chalk it up to differing opinions, maybe. I mean...maybe some people don't care and others do. :/
Hm.
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(Personal explanation of that: Seth says that he comes from an old family of knights. Maybe they are very conservative?)
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I personally think that Ismaire has several reasons not to re-marry; maybe she doesn't want to, maybe she likes the power she has now and doesn't want to share, maybe she thinks nobody around her would be fit. And maybe she isn't allowed to.
Also, I almost completely agree with you on your perception of Seth. I would only add that if you look at his family, it might be that he grew up with very conservative values. Might factor into it as well.
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That, too. Even if she did, though, Carlyle has a number of bars against him.
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Seth: ... I'm sorry. I'm-- I'll be more direct. Sister Natasha... When this war is over would you...come live with me?
Natasha: Oh! But, Seth... I'm a cleric. I'm sworn never to...
Seth: I know you're a cleric. You've given your life over to a divine calling. But would the Everlasting not smile upon the love shared by its creations?
That. . . doesn't speak to a conservative man who thinks everyone should stay in their place, to me.
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And the connection with royalty definitely would have a different standing with a knight. While royalty do not only stand above them, they also serve them directly. Clergy seems to be more on the same social level as knights. They often enough serve royalty as well. So it's not surprising that Seth would view those relationships as different.
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Ditto on the social taboos. I don't even think either Seth or Natasha are worried about their traditional/conservative values; they're probably more concerned about ordinary things like commitment and for that matter, survival. They're pretty introverted, pretty thoughtful. It's not too difficult to think that they're just using old-fashioned excuses to mask their fears about the relationship lasting. Just imagine if Seth made that promise to marry after the war was over, and then he kicked the bucket the next day. :/
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That really is an excellent point. Maybe he's simply trying to do the same thing with Eirika, pushing her away with the expectation that he's all too likely to fall in her service. It might not need a more elaborate explanation than that.
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A romance between a prince and his knight? What scandal! What intrigue! It's all right, though. You can love anyone you like.
In other words, it seems as if a Royal/"Commoner" pairing is not exactly common, but also not impossible. Then again, this is Forde we're talking about. XD Still, it does imply that there is an initial barrier to the whole Royal/Commoner pairing.
I would also say that the positive viewpoint of the Seth/Eirika and Innes/Vanessa don't necessarily mean everyone agreed with the pairing immediately. Seth/Eirika, for instance, could have become a beloved tale a few decades later after all the old objecting dudes died. :P Plus, every romantic tale needs a bit of struggle, don't they? It wouldn't be a great romantic movie/novel if there wasn't something initially keeping them apart.
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Yeah, I'm not sure how much Forde is yanking Vanessa's chain, especially as neither Vanessa nor Syrene are remotely subtle about their admiration for Innes. "Fangirling" is a justifiable term.
Seth/Eirika, for instance, could have become a beloved tale a few decades later after all the old objecting dudes died.
Oh, entirely possible. It's also possible that only Rausten and maybe Frelia even have their "old dudes" still around (hence the objections to Eph/L'Arachel). We don't know how much of the noble or clerical hierarchy of Renais survived its conquest by Grado.
These are also people who put up with being ruled by a mad knight and his corpse-wife. That might possibly change one's ideas about what is and is not socially acceptable.
Plus, every romantic tale needs a bit of struggle, don't they?
Oh, yes. Quite true. But I suspect that, with Seth and Eirika, the struggle is rather more internal than external, if that makes any sense.
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On a different note, I always viewed the objections of Eph/L'Arachel to be more like "omgwthbbq she's marrying that insane warrior dude that likes fighting all day long? did she marry him just because he's hot"
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I read one fanfic that took the view the people of Rausten believed Ephraim wasn't appropriately pious. There's nothing concrete FOR it in the game script, but Renais doesn't have any playable clerics or anything else to indicate a strong religious bent. It's... possible.
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