Comments | mary_j_59: True to Tolkien?

mary_j_59

True to Tolkien?

Aug 29, 2022 23:47

It's been fascinating and disheartening to observe all the noise about the upcoming Rings of Power from Amazon. Honestly, it's a lesson in social media and how toxic it can be. There really does seem to be something horribly toxic about social media these days. People seek reactions, and outrageousness and cruelty get reactions. This happens on all ( Read more... )

tolkien, adaptations, social media

Comments 10

Reply seductivedark August 30 2022, 13:38:14 UTC

I liked the films. Most of the skimping, IMO, had to do with run time, and if you watch the extended editions (which I do, and enjoy - I don't think I ever saw the theater versions of Two Towers or RotK) they're long enough without adding in Denethor having a Palantir, etc. I didn't care for Witch King knocking Gandalf off his horse or the shrinking of Sam's role as a ring-bearer. I do get that they did this for drama, which seemed to be going up in movies and TV shows at the time. Still not a fan ( ... )

Re: Reply mary_j_59 September 2 2022, 22:20:21 UTC

Well, that's definitely the best way to enjoy Tolkien! There will never be a substitute for the books and nothing will ever detract from them.

My sister and I--both lifelong fans of the books--watched the new series last night and loved it. At least, the first two episodes. It wasn't just that it was gorgeous to look at and listen to; it also had the right feel and the right themes. I really enjoyed it--so far. And I hope it will go on as well as it's begun.

Thanks for your comment!

Re: Reply mary_j_59 September 12 2022, 16:02:59 UTC

One thing I'd like to add: Right-wing people, including Eastern European Nazis, have embraced Tolkien as a battle of white Europeans against the invading Asiatic hordes. This is appalling, and Tolkien himself would surely hate it--we know he would, from his own words about Hitler. That, to me, is reason enough to include people of African and Asian descent among the "good guys".

I also believe there is textual support for brown-skinned proto-hobbits. Sam, as described in the books, could well be part-African.

As to the extended editions, I found them even more problematic than the theatrical versions, though I understand why you don't agree. See my earlier essay, years back, for exactly why!

My sister and I are among the book fans who are finding the TV show truer to Tolkien's themes and morality than the movies were--though, of course, we love the movies, too! And we're just at the start of the TV show, being three hours in.

jongibbs January 18 2023, 11:55:22 UTC

Before the movies came out, I used to reread the books every year or so, especially after Senior Management bought me illustrated editions. After the movies, I think I've reread the books once.
Even though Peter Jackson's adaptation made changes, I enjoyed them so much, I went from re-reading to re-watching. The 'extras' on the extended sets are also a delight.
In a similar way, I no longer re-read the Harry Potter books because I enjoy Jim Dale's audio versions so much more.

mary_j_59 January 18 2023, 20:57:13 UTC

Well, yes. I can see that. My sister and I also didn't reread the books the years the movies came out, nor for a few years thereafter. It puzzled us, and we counted it as a loss, even though we both liked the movies a lot.

I think it's great that people have different media they can use to approach beloved stories.

But the media do change the experience of the stories, and sometimes (as in Jackson's films) even the meaning. A great film of a book is not a substitute for the book. It's its own work of art--an interpretation.

Anyway, nice to hear from you, and I'm glad you like the films so much. Did you watch the TV show? I still have to blog about it, but I thought it was excellent--the best TV show I've seen since DS9.

jongibbs January 18 2023, 22:50:36 UTC

I haven't watched it yet. the last fantasy show I watched was Willow on Disney+. I enjoyed some of the humor, but I'm not sure the story warranted eight episodes. It would have worked much better as a movie. I have a sneaking suspicion I'll feel the same about Rings of Power if I ever get to see it.

mary_j_59 January 24 2023, 02:19:00 UTC

You might! You might well feel that way, though Deirdre and I both wished the season were longer so that some of the stories had a bit more room to breathe. There wasn't quite enough of Celebrimbor, for example, though Galadriel and Elrond were both splendid. I really, really liked the original characters and their storylines, too.

sunnyskywalker January 21 2023, 19:37:03 UTC

I was very wary of the show, but ended up really enjoying it. I'm finding a lot of the reactions puzzling, too ( ... )

mary_j_59 January 24 2023, 02:26:25 UTC

Thank you! I'm going to head over to your wonderful review and comment separately there, but you are so right both about the flexibility of Tolkien's canon and the way they are handing some of the themes in ROP. Like you, I do sympathize (a bit) with the absolute purists who wanted to see the second age exactly as written. The problem, of course, is that not much is written, and the showrunners don't have the rights to some of the stories these people want to see.

But I can't sympathize at all with the people who hold up Jackson as an exemplar of a fine adaptation. Of course, the movies were fine adaptations! They were astounding. But, like all adaptations, they were interpretations, not straight retellings of the book. And some of Jackson's choices really, really, bothered me. I think these young men have a better sense of Tolkien's morality than Jackson did. At least, so far. There are still four seasons to go, but I love what I'm seeing of the character arcs so far.

And I'm actually astonished at how much I love all the original

sunnyskywalker January 24 2023, 16:45:05 UTC

If nothing else, the lore-memorizing fans have put in so much work doing all that memorizing that I can kind of sympathize with them wanting to see it "accomplished," in a sense. But if they had fun doing it, the fun is already accomplished, and now they can have additional fun! Plus, I just re-watched a couple of episodes and noticed that Elendil's ship has greenery tied up front. The Bough of Return is some deep lore-detail. There is clearly lots of stuff like that layered in. Hopefully in time the lore fans will notice it all and enjoy it more?

I can't imagine anyone comparing movie Gimli to book Gimli and thinking that the movies are straight retellings that get every nuance of Tolkien's meaning. Just...no. They are great, but they are different things. And that's okay! We can have both!