It sounds to me that much of the OC stuff I started with would still meet their criteria for banning.
"While there are stories, essays, and discussions that include discussion of these issues in an effort to understand and prevent them, others use a pretext to promote these activities. It’s often very hard to tell the difference. As such, we have suspended reported journals that do not clearly and substantially object to these activities while at the same time portraying them."
I'm not trying to convince anyone else to leave. I don't even know if I will. But for the first time, it seems that it might be a reasonable thing to do.
See, I'm not so sure. I really think they're focusing on bona fide (or not so good faith) journals that appear to promote child molestation. I know there is a large grey area there if you talk age of consent and graphic sex and the like, but let's not panic. I got a novel published featuring a 17 year old hustler who blows guys for cash; and who has (pretty graphic) sex with an older woman. That's not illegal.
Yes, there might be some edges of fandom which are more vulnerable. Don't know what to do about that. But I really don't think that's what they're gunning for.
2) In some cases Journals that were restored will be asked to clarify their profiles to avoid the appearance that they are soliciting or encouraging illegal activities. 3) Journals that we do not restore will be journals that we are fairly sure are actually intended to encourage activities that put minors at risk but we will review them if requested by their owner to be certain that we did not make a mistake.
If they confine themselves to the legal standard, then I'll be perfectly happy. But his statement "do not clearly and substantially object to these activities while at the same time portraying them" implies to me that they are reserving the right to purge accounts that cover completely legal material at their own discretion if *they* decide that the sex acts portrayed aren't clearly and completely horrific to the characters and if we don't clearly say how horrible such things are.
Supporting the legal standard is fine. Defining their own standard for moral purity leaves me cold.
And I'm very curious to see which groups return and which remain deleted. I'm also curious what the wording to groups that must alter their profiles.
Well it's clear that some of the wording that triggered deletion was, say, people putting "incest" or "underage sex" (or, apparently, "fucking children", because some of the deleted sites were pretty vile and very clearly aimed at paedophiles) in their profiles. And I agree that the wording is mealy-mouthed, but this is also because the law is not as clear cut as all that....
Ultimately, the community we've created isn't about them--the powers that be--it's about us, the things we create and the glimpses of our lives that we're all choosing to share.
You are very wise and one of my favourite things about LJ and the Internet. I do think communities like this are so important and they don't just reflect real life, they are real life. There's people you know through friends of friends too, but you're always interested to know if they've had some good news.
Um, your novel analogy was better.
I loved what you said about reading the other day and being consciously hip. I loved The Corrections by Jonathan Frantzen (although I honestly felt it could have been a wee bit shorter), but part of what I loved about it, was that it just was. It wasn't him trying to fit intosome pre-ordained idea. I have a real problem with book cloning, it's the reason why there's 1300 Harry Potter esque series of questionable quality while I had to visit three bookshops before I could buy The Secret Garden.
I feel the same way. Meeting people here is no substitute for meeting in person, but it is a very real part of my (real) life. Just a different part. And I think I'm going to end up meeting pretty much everyone in person ANYWAY.
I've been thinking I should read it again. I've shelved Calamity Physics for a few days to read something easy and breezy, and it's much nicer at the moment, when things have been crazy and I'm swamped at work and all.
Hee. Don't worry about the email. Whenever you have time! I just wanted to apologize for being an idiot.
I'm with you. Late, yes, but they are grovelling. They fucked up, but they were dealing with an issue that does cause knee jerk reactions. And, well, I wait to see what they will do next (like - will they reinstate some of the smutty comms like pornish_pixies?)
I don't believe I'll move either. If I leave, I'll simply stop journaling.
They didn't make a knee jerk reaction. Some of the pro-pedophilia journals have existed here for ages. I know of attempts among people on my flist to have some of them removed long ago and LJs policy back then was that they wouldn't act. So this isn't a sudden revelation to which they made a knee-jerk reaction. This has been on the table for years and they let it go. Then a group started harassing LJs advertisers about the content and SixApart immediately made a poorly thought out and poorly implemented decision that went well beyond the legal standard. Their new stance still puts them well beyond the legal standard. I find that troublesome.
Well, obviously the fear of losing advertisers put the fire of god under their arses. But by the terms of their own apology they are aiming to make amends. It remains to be seen as to how far that goes...
Or even for over four years, really. It seems like a long time, but I will probably be around that long.
I don't think I'd regret it. As I've been saying to lugonn, I understand that people make mistakes, and that includes CEOs, etc. Obviously they screwed up in a number of ways, mostly regarding communication with their users, but since they are apologizing and attempting to rectify these mistakes, I am willing to accept that and move on. They're dealing with really tricky territory here, and I respect the fact that they're trying, at this point, to fix things.
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"While there are stories, essays, and discussions that include discussion of these issues in an effort to understand and prevent them, others use a pretext to promote these activities. It’s often very hard to tell the difference. As such, we have suspended reported journals that do not clearly and substantially object to these activities while at the same time portraying them."
I'm not trying to convince anyone else to leave. I don't even know if I will. But for the first time, it seems that it might be a reasonable thing to do.
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Yes, there might be some edges of fandom which are more vulnerable. Don't know what to do about that. But I really don't think that's what they're gunning for.
2) In some cases Journals that were restored will be asked to clarify their profiles to avoid the appearance that they are soliciting or encouraging illegal activities.
3) Journals that we do not restore will be journals that we are fairly sure are actually intended to encourage activities that put minors at risk but we will review them if requested by their owner to be certain that we did not make a mistake.
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Supporting the legal standard is fine. Defining their own standard for moral purity leaves me cold.
And I'm very curious to see which groups return and which remain deleted. I'm also curious what the wording to groups that must alter their profiles.
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You are very wise and one of my favourite things about LJ and the Internet. I do think communities like this are so important and they don't just reflect real life, they are real life. There's people you know through friends of friends too, but you're always interested to know if they've had some good news.
Um, your novel analogy was better.
I loved what you said about reading the other day and being consciously hip. I loved The Corrections by Jonathan Frantzen (although I honestly felt it could have been a wee bit shorter), but part of what I loved about it, was that it just was. It wasn't him trying to fit intosome pre-ordained idea. I have a real problem with book cloning, it's the reason why there's 1300 Harry Potter esque series of questionable quality while I had to visit three bookshops before I could buy The Secret Garden.
*owes you email*
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I've been thinking I should read it again. I've shelved Calamity Physics for a few days to read something easy and breezy, and it's much nicer at the moment, when things have been crazy and I'm swamped at work and all.
Hee. Don't worry about the email. Whenever you have time! I just wanted to apologize for being an idiot.
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No chance of me moving, though. I like it here.
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They didn't make a knee jerk reaction. Some of the pro-pedophilia journals have existed here for ages. I know of attempts among people on my flist to have some of them removed long ago and LJs policy back then was that they wouldn't act. So this isn't a sudden revelation to which they made a knee-jerk reaction. This has been on the table for years and they let it go. Then a group started harassing LJs advertisers about the content and SixApart immediately made a poorly thought out and poorly implemented decision that went well beyond the legal standard. Their new stance still puts them well beyond the legal standard. I find that troublesome.
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Everyone dies. But a lot of the stuff before that is pretty awesome.
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I bought a permanent account a while back, so I'll be here until it becomes completely unacceptable. But I will move if it becomes necessary.
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I was thinking about buying one, too, before all this business. If I can even afford it. It seems like it makes good financial sense.
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Hey, watch my LJ for a dementicated fic coming soon. :)
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I don't think I'd regret it. As I've been saying to lugonn, I understand that people make mistakes, and that includes CEOs, etc. Obviously they screwed up in a number of ways, mostly regarding communication with their users, but since they are apologizing and attempting to rectify these mistakes, I am willing to accept that and move on. They're dealing with really tricky territory here, and I respect the fact that they're trying, at this point, to fix things.
Excellent! This one, or the other one?
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