Isn't there some sort of Wesleyan Trapezoid we can invoke to discern the importance of this discussion?
And not to derail the issue even further, but how much biblical material is devoted to church membership anyways? Leadership is well addressed (requirements, recommendations, etc), but not so much who gets to sit down and eat with us beyond what GentleBen said.
Also, Melisse, Doesn't this sound a bit like Bill Clinton to you? "How much of a "sin" is it really? If you want to boil it all down, what is sin?" "Sin" is rejecting God, "sins" is what happens when we live in rejection. Do regenerate/regenerating Christians still sin? You betcha. Did Paul and all the other apostles? Surely. We're a church of hypocrites standing on the shoulders of giant hypocrites who have villified people dealing with an unpopular sin. Now we're living in a culture that holds to something that looks more like Roman pan-theistic times than a theocratic Christian worldview. And we're reaping the fruits of our actions. Ministry to the villified is what Jesus did (extortionists, prostitutes, the incurable ill). So should we. Because, that's us too. But when scripture is clear about the roots of sin and the results, we can't remain silent or muddy the waters.
Actually, that's exactly what I wanted to know, I'm on my way to work, but I'll check those verses out later. The other point I would like to make is this: Is one sin worse then another one? Personally, I don't think it is. Think about the magnitude of that. The point isn't that, well he did worse things then I did. The point is that we ALL do "bad things" and we ALL need forgiveness for them. It doesn't matter if it's something as seemingly small as a white lie or as big as murdering someone. They're all sins, and that is something that I think the Church needs to realize. Even Preachers and Pillars of The Church sin everyday. We all make mistakes. I'm going to leave it at that for right now because otherwise I'm going to have to break the law and speed on my way to work!
Right on, man. Right on. The Scripture is pretty clear in its "for ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God." The Greek for 'all' really does mean every creature (I don't have my lexicon around here right now, but I'm sure I could look it up if you want).
The way I see it is that while homosexuality is a sin, so is lying, or breaking the law, or the parents thing. How DARE I say that my sins are 'better' than someone else's? Its not MY job to judge - that's God's job, and I HAPPILY let Him do it!
Mmm...but I'm at the point where I'm not even sure it is a sin. Sin is rejection of God or whatever separates an individual from God. So in one sense, it's a subjective thing. A lot of the standards in the Old Testament aren't held to anymore (granted, most of those were purity issues and not related to sin), so what is God actually saying today?
I've always been of the opinion that Scripture is the infallable word of God here on Earth. I also believe that words on a page do nothing; it takes the breath of the Holy Spirit for life (in all senses of the word) to come out of those words. I know that you know the Scripture in your head, and I know that you invite the Holy Spirit into your heart, because I have been around you long enough to know the character God has created and moulded you into. You are truly a woman of God
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And not to derail the issue even further, but how much biblical material is devoted to church membership anyways? Leadership is well addressed (requirements, recommendations, etc), but not so much who gets to sit down and eat with us beyond what GentleBen said.
-cheep
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"Sin" is rejecting God, "sins" is what happens when we live in rejection. Do regenerate/regenerating Christians still sin? You betcha. Did Paul and all the other apostles? Surely.
We're a church of hypocrites standing on the shoulders of giant hypocrites who have villified people dealing with an unpopular sin. Now we're living in a culture that holds to something that looks more like Roman pan-theistic times than a theocratic Christian worldview. And we're reaping the fruits of our actions.
Ministry to the villified is what Jesus did (extortionists, prostitutes, the incurable ill). So should we. Because, that's us too. But when scripture is clear about the roots of sin and the results, we can't remain silent or muddy the waters.
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The way I see it is that while homosexuality is a sin, so is lying, or breaking the law, or the parents thing. How DARE I say that my sins are 'better' than someone else's? Its not MY job to judge - that's God's job, and I HAPPILY let Him do it!
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