It is. It left me in a *very* uncomfortable place though. I suspect we'll get into it more, but basically the gist of it was: let people have their own opinions.
hence the abyss. The problem is that so many people distrust the narrative, which is suspect to me, because factual truth (which, I take most of the new testament to be) is sort of a modern issue. It's a reductist standpoint.
Yeah...but I guess my difficulty with this lies in the fact that this is *seminary*. Not like we have to believe everything that we're taught, but at the same time, we should be spritually formed...and there ain't much positive formation going on right now.
Well, there is negative theology (hee hee), but deconstruction and historical criticism without SERIOUS spiritual excerise is dangerous. I mean context is key, but context can be just as lost historically. So basically, I entirely see where you are coming.
Yeah... that was a big part of my FIRST Bible class at my conservative Baptist uni (or, at least, what I thought was conservative before that class--now I know it was just really fantastic as far as a well-rounded theological education was concerned).
It was shocking to me--the whole this-isn't-a-hard-fact thing. That's when I stopped being an inerrantist... simply to salvage my faith. But, the more I thought about it, the more I think... well--do the "facts" change ANYTHING about the Real Gospel or Redemption or God or Love or ANY OF IT? Nope. Not really. Not at all. It still all comes down to faith. It's a big leap to take, and sometimes that can be a bit scary and earth-shattering. I know it was for me.
Facts and faith...
anonymous
February 23 2006, 09:30:32 UTC
I tend to view the NT as far more rational than we give it credit for. Paul states specifically that if we reduce the resurrection (and thus the entirety of Jesus' ministry) to a "Swoon" or other type of fabrication, " we are to be pitied more than all men." (1 cor 15:19)
Paul knew the facts, and his faith was grounded in these facts. You can't say that the facts could change and our faith would be the same. If Jesus wasn't resurrected, I'd be working my tail off on wall street, drinking and trying to get laid. Seriously. I see no point in this whole church/ministry/serving thing without that FACT. Change that and we're done. I'm not an inerrantist either, but we can't have "truth" without "facts." Faith on its own is worthless, faith in someone has value. -Chip
Re: Facts and faith...mellanellaFebruary 25 2006, 14:29:00 UTC
I think what I've come down to is this:
I don't care if the gospels have a few more Jesus healing stories than what actually happened. I don't really care what day Jesus was crucified on. What I do care about is that he was raised from the dead three days later.
I will say that yes...fictional stories can carry truth (ala George Washington and the cherry tree). But for me, the fact that God intervened in human history through the person of Jesus Christ, God's son, is unquestionable. If they try to use modern psychology on the Resurrection, they're going down!
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Good advice, but I never let them have them without reasons :-D.
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"opinions are immunity/to being told we're wrong/Paper, rock, and scissors, we/all have our pros and cons."
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It was shocking to me--the whole this-isn't-a-hard-fact thing. That's when I stopped being an inerrantist... simply to salvage my faith. But, the more I thought about it, the more I think... well--do the "facts" change ANYTHING about the Real Gospel or Redemption or God or Love or ANY OF IT? Nope. Not really. Not at all. It still all comes down to faith. It's a big leap to take, and sometimes that can be a bit scary and earth-shattering. I know it was for me.
Reply
Paul knew the facts, and his faith was grounded in these facts. You can't say that the facts could change and our faith would be the same. If Jesus wasn't resurrected, I'd be working my tail off on wall street, drinking and trying to get laid. Seriously. I see no point in this whole church/ministry/serving thing without that FACT. Change that and we're done. I'm not an inerrantist either, but we can't have "truth" without "facts." Faith on its own is worthless, faith in someone has value.
-Chip
Reply
I don't care if the gospels have a few more Jesus healing stories than what actually happened. I don't really care what day Jesus was crucified on. What I do care about is that he was raised from the dead three days later.
I will say that yes...fictional stories can carry truth (ala George Washington and the cherry tree). But for me, the fact that God intervened in human history through the person of Jesus Christ, God's son, is unquestionable. If they try to use modern psychology on the Resurrection, they're going down!
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