Comments | menolike: How poor is poor Remus Lupin?

menolike

How poor is poor Remus Lupin?

Apr 12, 2006 16:56

Title: How poor is poor Remus Lupin and how innocent was Sirius Black?
Spoilers: Prisoner of Azkaban
Summary: This is a multi part (2-3) piece. The first one is an introduction to how Remus Lupin was portrayed in “Prisoner of Azkaban”. And how the reader was emotionally tricked into sympathizing with him.
A/N: No beta, No editor, No friend, No co- ( Read more... )

Comments 112

straussmonster April 12 2006, 21:01:43 UTC

Who had also never shown his contempt to you in front of students or had he made fun of you?

I don't know about you, but I teach. And one of the cardinal rules is that if you want to talk about students and their inadequacies with another teacher, you never do it in front of the student. And then Snape, when he teaches DADA, does his best to insult Lupin's teaching skills to Lupin's own class--another piece of unprofessionalism.

Why does Lupin call Snape by his first name? He calls him Severus too often. Don’t you think?Another classic academic power game. Snape is angry about Lupin's being there at all, and is (as we see) going to Dumbledore and complaining about Lupin--which Dumbledore basically tells him is none of his business, Snape doesn't appoint faculty. Lupin, as one of the professors, has the right to use the less formal first name; Snape, by using only the last name, is trying to express a power imbalance. It is somewhat passive-agressive to keep calling Snape 'Severus', but it's also a response provoked by Snape's ( ... )

ook April 12 2006, 21:27:38 UTC

Heh...see my latest comment above. Snape must really hate Lupin (after all, Lupin did try to eat him a long time ago). Add to that the annoyance/fear that Dumbledore has hired a werewolf (who was a past danger to Hogwarts students) and Dumbledore is also ignoring Snape's suggestions that Lupin knew how Black got into the castle (which was indeed true).

I really have to wonder what pranks that Lupin DID help the Marauders pull on Snape when they were all students. Lupin and Snape have quite a little power struggle going on in PoA. :)

menolike April 12 2006, 21:41:36 UTC

when he teaches DADA, does his best to insult Lupin's teaching skills to Lupin's own class

Yes. But was it in retaliation for the boggart??? 'You made fun of me and belittled me. I'm getting even'

When Snape brought him his potion AFTER; they BOTH were Civil (think DD had anything to say about that?)

It is somewhat passive-agressive to keep calling Snape 'Severus'

What!? Am I the only person who thinks it's just plain friendliness?
(Don't laugh I'm serious!) Can't it be a sign of good gesture on Lupin's Part which Snape in his usual manner resisting? The first time we hear him using 'Severus', is when Snape brought his potion! (and probably after a lecture to BOTH of them from DD). Possible isn't it?

remember in HBP during x-mass? Lupin says "I trust Severus". He doesn't call him that to his face only. and when he does Snape doesn't seem to resent it does he?

straussmonster April 12 2006, 21:45:57 UTC

Maybe it was retaliation for the boggart, but if so, it only goes to further show how immature and totally unprofessional Snape was about that situation. After all, Snape started the ball rolling--sniping at Neville in front of Lupin, in a situation where it's not Snape's classroom and he's not in control. Lupin then turns the situation around to give Neville some confidence and show him that he can do the lesson. Hardly deeply sinister, that.

HBP is after everything in the previous books, where one can argue that Lupin is trying very hard to make up for his earlier mistakes in not trusting Dumbledore, and is thus parroting the party line as handed down from above, with a vengeance. It comes off as rather half-hearted to me, although YMMV.

Thread 8

menolike April 12 2006, 22:23:55 UTC

Kind commentators:
could you PLEASE let go of Snape-Lupin interaction...pretty please.
I had to put it in the piece because I'm trying so make a profile of Lupin. But I mentioned many other things; how come no one commented on his silence about Black and all what followed.

Could you find it in you to forget about Snape and forget about Neville (they have been discussed way too much), and help me make as accurate a profile about Lupin as possible with the remaining information?

Thank you

troubleinchina April 13 2006, 02:03:55 UTC

Would you like some constructive feedback on the structure of your essay?

gunderpants April 13 2006, 02:22:59 UTC

The structure was technically fine: breaking it up into points and arguments to give clarity is a great idea. The content of the arguments, on the other hand...

troubleinchina April 13 2006, 02:30:03 UTC

I actually found a lot of the sentences very difficult to read (although I may want to give it a reread when it's not 3:30 in the morning in Scotland). I was thinking that taking the time to read it outloud before submitting it to hp_essays might help with some of the sentence structure issues, as well as some of the grammar and spelling.

You don't have to read it outloud to someone else, just to yourself. It may help.

vlredreign April 13 2006, 02:05:07 UTC

Ummm....well. The problem, as I see it, is that you want people to agree with your assessment, not discuss it. If that's the case, then we're spitting in the wind, troops. But, to go back to one of your earlier points:

1. NOTHING excuses his actions during his school years.

Yeah, it does. They were KIDS. Anyone who is different is suspect. Sirius was a wise-ass and a bully. Lupin was supposed to be the one in a position to "handle" him. Obviously, that didn't work. We only have so much influence over our friends. And besides, Sirius was also a force of nature. Not even James could stop him when he got it in his head to do something. And, last time I read the book, Lupin didn't invite Snape down to the Whomping Willow. SIRIUS did. Look at it this way. 15 year old teen, hormonal, trying to stay sane during his monthly change. I don't remember anyone in the book that tried to help Lupin through his changes. That was the reason his friends became Animagi. To help him through it, because the adults surely didn't.

2. ( ... )

julian_black April 13 2006, 09:00:14 UTC

Is it possible that Remus had jobs after leaving Hogwarts? Yes. It is possible that, in these jobs, he was absent on the nights of the full moon? Absolutely. I'd like to suggest that even if he took jobs in the Muggle world, calling in sick every 28 days and being sickly and tired (and thus unproductive) for a couple of days after wouldn't have endeared him to most employers. He suffers from recurring bouts of a chronic illness, but since it's not an illness with an acceptable diagnosis in the Muggle world, he's screwed. Muggles, when confronted with his haggard appearance and monthly bouts of illness that have no legitimate explanation would probably come to the conclusion that he's a drunk or has a drug problem ( ... )

avari_elf April 13 2006, 17:43:13 UTC

I'd like to suggest that even if he took jobs in the Muggle world, calling in sick every 28 days and being sickly and tired (and thus unproductive) for a couple of days after wouldn't have endeared him to most employers.

In a bout of pure idle speculation with my sister (we really had nothing better to do, being stuck in the subway) we wondered why Remus' parents hadn't drilled in his head that the only way he was going to have a stable professional life was by being his own employer. I mean, I know several people who are independant workers (translator, accountants, plumber...) and Lupin seems intelligent enough to manage himself.

menolike April 13 2006, 18:10:08 UTC

being his own employer

Thank you and your sister so much. I was waiting for someone to say that.
He could have learned a triad, he could have been a carpenter! he could work in a grocery part time, or as an errand boy. At the center I take my lessons there is this man in his mid forties how take orders for pies and pizzas and the like and bring them to those who ordered them. it doesn't pay much but it's better than nothing and a lot of people tip him or offer him simple presents.

I know several people who are independent workers (translator, accountants, plumber...) and Lupin seems intelligent enough to manage himself.

If Lupin were a real person then I believe he would have done that werewolf or not. wizard or not.
But he is not; so he will do what his creator wants him to do, forget about logic and reason (I learned that from reading ALL the comments. So I'm no longer disappointed in whatever outcome bound to shock us by JKR)

Thread 8

warrioreowyn April 13 2006, 02:32:22 UTC

I agree with the earlier comments about Lupin being passive-aggressive. Snape sneers at him and tries to cause him to lose his job by attempting to lead students to the conclusion that he is a werewolf. Snape also bullies his students; I consider it quite fair, and excellent poetic justice, that Lupin helps Neville to overcome his fear of Snape in such an amusing manner. It wouldn't be nearly so hard on Snape if the man had a sense of humour and could take it in stride ( ... )