I'm afraid I find her quite irritating. She seems to be the personification of the masculine Ideal Mistress figure, endlessly mysterious and alluring without any threat of commitment issues raising their ugly head. Also she comes over to me as rather smug, though less so in S5 where I quite like the bickering married couple vibe she and Matt Smith have got going.
Thank you for providing that bit of information, even though I hadn't asked about it. Age is always a touchy subject, but I'm glad you mentioned it. It's interesting, as I had not thought about asking for age or sex (although maybe I should ammend my original post with that as an option), but since I working on the paper through a feminist lens, they are intriguing factors. (Especially considering that there are different generations of fans throughout the run of the franchise, as well as the agism factor of River and Alex Kingston in comparison to the much younger female companions. Recently, I've heard a lot of complaints that "she's [River and/or Alex] too old for [The Doctor and/or Matt].") I don't want the paper to get away from me, but it's definitely something to take into consideration.
Out of curiosity, are you just a fan of NuWho? Or are you familiar with any of the Classic series as well?
See I actually found her to be MORE smug in season 5, actually, in season 4 she was thrown off by Ten not recognizing her, it put her on uneven footing for once, and she was more vulnerable and thus less smug. While in season 5 she is FULLY self-confidant, with nothing to detract from her complete certainty in herself, and she was just unbearable in the Angel epps, from being able to drive the TARDIS better than the Doctor himself, etc...:/
She seems to be the personification of the masculine Ideal Mistress figure, endlessly mysterious and alluring without any threat of commitment issues raising their ugly head.
I can see this. Also, I think it's kind of what Reinette seemed to be in TGitF. (lol, also obvs Reinette was an actual mistress to the king)
Why do you like or dislike River Song?I dislike her because she fits in the model of Moffat's typical female character; smug, all powerful/all knowing, and aggressively flirtatious. I don't think she's a special character, because Reinette and Liz 10 share similiar traits with her
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...I'm not really sure what the second part of the question is asking!
Apologies! I was trying to be open eded with that, but I was referring to the mindset in contemporary culture, above and beyond the subset of the DW fandom. For instance, does she represent a shift in gender roles or does her characterization say anything about the influence of feminism? Like I said, I didn't want to be too specific, because although my starting point is examining the character from a feminist lens, if other people have views that aren't feminism-related that I hadn't thought of, I am interesting in knowing those interpretations of the question as well. :)
Do you want to know anything else? Like our ages and how long we've been watching the show/been involved in the fandom? People usually want to know those things.
This is the first time I've done one of these, so I was a little unsure of how to go about it. If you're willing to give out that information, I'd certainly appreciate that. Actually, I just added that into the post after sensiblecat'
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Fantastic! I skimmed the beginning before I commented and I'm very intrigued, since it not only deals with River, but Amy too, and feminism within DW in general. Thanks so much for sharing your link!
That's cool. Do you still want me to answer your own questions in this post?
By the way I am female, 20, Australian and I have religously watched new who but have also watched old who as a kid but don't remember an awful lot. I do know old who affected me a lot in the "shit I need to get me a sofa to hide behind" kind of way.
I also have another River post but I need to re read first to check if it is relevant.
If I'm completely honest, I didn't much like River in the Library episodes - but I tried hard to like her, because I love Alex Kingston!
I felt she was very smug, but I later justified that to myself by the thought that in fact, she was showing us the way that the Doctor probably appears to most of the people he interacts with; he shows up, tells everyone how brilliant he is, demonstrates that fact and then disappears in his mysterious blue box. And because we see things from the Doctor's PoV (mostly) and because he was clearly irritated and somewhat thrown by River and her continual hints at his/their future, then so was the audience. I wrote about that here if you're interested
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Also - I'm someone for whom the Doctor is always the centre of the show, so the fact that River didn't seem to like him (Ten) all that much and kept talking about how he "wasn't finished yet" and how "her Doctor" was so much more fearsome and powerful... well, it didn't endear her to me all that much.
I like her a lot more in S5. I think the "old married couple" vibe that exists between her and Eleven (which was never there with Ten, despite a very clunky signpost in the script) is working very well and the fact that we know that the Doctor knows how River meets her end, does even up the “power” imbalance between them.
Why do you like or dislike River Song? I like River Song for many reasons:
She's intelligent, she's not afraid of showing off that intelligence.
She's confident, and very sure of herself (even when there are things she doesn't know, as in the Library episodes when she doesn't know what's going on, but trusts in herself and the Doctor)
She's allowed to have emotions and show them off, ranging from happiness (the way she lights up around him, Amy, adventure) to melancholy (that moment when she realized that it wasn't her Doctor in the Library, again; not to mention her reaction to Amy's bedroom where she understands how deeply he's entwined himself all unconsciously in Amy's life
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BTW I'm a bit older than most fannish types (52)
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Thank you for providing that bit of information, even though I hadn't asked about it. Age is always a touchy subject, but I'm glad you mentioned it. It's interesting, as I had not thought about asking for age or sex (although maybe I should ammend my original post with that as an option), but since I working on the paper through a feminist lens, they are intriguing factors. (Especially considering that there are different generations of fans throughout the run of the franchise, as well as the agism factor of River and Alex Kingston in comparison to the much younger female companions. Recently, I've heard a lot of complaints that "she's [River and/or Alex] too old for [The Doctor and/or Matt].") I don't want the paper to get away from me, but it's definitely something to take into consideration.
Out of curiosity, are you just a fan of NuWho? Or are you familiar with any of the Classic series as well?
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I can see this. Also, I think it's kind of what Reinette seemed to be in TGitF. (lol, also obvs Reinette was an actual mistress to the king)
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Apologies! I was trying to be open eded with that, but I was referring to the mindset in contemporary culture, above and beyond the subset of the DW fandom. For instance, does she represent a shift in gender roles or does her characterization say anything about the influence of feminism? Like I said, I didn't want to be too specific, because although my starting point is examining the character from a feminist lens, if other people have views that aren't feminism-related that I hadn't thought of, I am interesting in knowing those interpretations of the question as well. :)
Do you want to know anything else? Like our ages and how long we've been watching the show/been involved in the fandom? People usually want to know those things.
This is the first time I've done one of these, so I was a little unsure of how to go about it. If you're willing to give out that information, I'd certainly appreciate that. Actually, I just added that into the post after sensiblecat' ( ... )
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http://dweomeroflight.livejournal.com/12737.html#cutid1
Feel free to comment on my actual blog post or here or ask me further questions (I find feminism and dr who endlessly interesting)
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By the way I am female, 20, Australian and I have religously watched new who but have also watched old who as a kid but don't remember an awful lot. I do know old who affected me a lot in the "shit I need to get me a sofa to hide behind" kind of way.
I also have another River post but I need to re read first to check if it is relevant.
Reply
I felt she was very smug, but I later justified that to myself by the thought that in fact, she was showing us the way that the Doctor probably appears to most of the people he interacts with; he shows up, tells everyone how brilliant he is, demonstrates that fact and then disappears in his mysterious blue box. And because we see things from the Doctor's PoV (mostly) and because he was clearly irritated and somewhat thrown by River and her continual hints at his/their future, then so was the audience. I wrote about that here if you're interested ( ... )
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I like her a lot more in S5. I think the "old married couple" vibe that exists between her and Eleven (which was never there with Ten, despite a very clunky signpost in the script) is working very well and the fact that we know that the Doctor knows how River meets her end, does even up the “power” imbalance between them.
IA with both of these things.
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I like River Song for many reasons:
She's intelligent, she's not afraid of showing off that intelligence.
She's confident, and very sure of herself (even when there are things she doesn't know, as in the Library episodes when she doesn't know what's going on, but trusts in herself and the Doctor)
She's allowed to have emotions and show them off, ranging from happiness (the way she lights up around him, Amy, adventure) to melancholy (that moment when she realized that it wasn't her Doctor in the Library, again; not to mention her reaction to Amy's bedroom where she understands how deeply he's entwined himself all unconsciously in Amy's life ( ... )
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