(Untitled)

[monkee_madness]

"Defenders of speciesism often argue that humans are superior to other species because of their greater intelligence. Taken to its logical extreme, this argument would imply that humans with higher I.Q. scores should have more rights than humans with lower I.Q. scores."http://www.svar.org

Comments

[bamzam229]

That's not true at all.

Humans have the distinct ability to reason their goals/values and act accordingly.

Animals don't. They only know survival instinctually.

Even low IQ humans have the ability to value and act accordingly.

Anyway, the only ones who go to logical extremes are those who are trying to disprove a logical moderate. You're arguing a strawman.

[monkee_madness]

You are flat out wrong, my friend.

[monkee_madness]

Haven't you ever had any pets? Besides Chris'?

[bamzam229]

My family has had a dog and a cat. I've had a fish.

I've lived on a farm for pretty much most of my childhood. I've been near farm animals for a long time.

As far as I'm concerned, there's a difference between the animal rights movement (with its many hypocritical arguments as you have eloquently shown) and animal welfare organizations.

There's very good reasons to have animal research. There's a voluntary organization that animal researchers flock to in order to be graded by them for animal care. There's some alphabet soup acronym that I should name drop but I forgot what it is, I believe it's in the link I included in another comment.

And I'm not flat out wrong. I think I corrected myself in another comment, so see that for further explanation. I was being too general.

[imkind]

bamzam229, I don't know why you are under that impression, but it is 100% untrue. animals know MUCH more than survival. almost all animals have the ability to make tools and use them. some animals collect things they find visually pleasing and it keep them in their homes- like art.

Pigs are curious and insightful animals thought to have intelligence beyond that of an average 3-year-old human child. They are smarter than dogs and every bit as friendly, loyal, and affectionate. When in their natural surroundings, not on factory farms, they are social, playful, protective animals who bond with each other, make beds, relax in the sun, and cool off in the mud.

But you are right that people have the ability to reason and goals/values and act accordingly. When people do things that they KNOW are wrong, but do not want to stop doing them, they make excuses to themselves to justify their wrongdoings.

[bamzam229]

So what should we do with these intelligence creatures?

Let them go?

How is that in the best interest of them?

They would most likely go way down in population.

How is that in the best interest of the animals? (it's not, it's in our best interest because all that farmland is "inefficient" for us)

Would you like your life to be interrupted by someone who thinks you're being oppressed and put in some safe place where nothing bad can happen to you? Is that in your best interest?

[monkee_madness]

Not let them go, stop making them breed! Many 'farm animals' can't breed naturally anymore anyways because humans have mutated them beyond that ability. What needs to happen is people stop inseminating the animals to create more beings that will be treated horribly for our own selfish purposes.

[bamzam229]

Oh, so wipe out the entire population by stop their breeding?

Again, how is that in the animal's best interest?

You know biologically how a species is doing is how many of that species are there. The population.

So if we stop breeding them you're for their entire eradication...so you as an animal rights activist...how is that in the animal's best interest?

[imkind]

TO BAMZAM229

[redmondkc]

Thank you for taking the time to tell me what I already mentioned with those links. Very insightful to read the same thing I said. With the exception of crows (and so I don't forget this time, ravens) I already mentioned primates and cetaceans using tools. Cool. Once again. Thanks for doing the research for me

[monkee_madness]

There are better ways! But here is a secret, it isn't the kind you personally eat!! The cheap foods are generally produced the cheapest (read: inhumane) ways. Watch "Earthlings" with me. If you are soo against the horrors, why do you still pay money for it to be done? The problem is that you speak with your dollars, and right now your dollars say that you don't give any kind of species' right arse cheek for farm animals welfare.

I agree that its like trying to get a square block through a round hole, getting a better idea into someone's square and society-conditioned brain is sure tough.

[bamzam229]

First, would you please learn how to stay in a thread

[bamzam229]

I also want to say it's alot easier to be eager to save animals because they don't argue over the fact of needing to besaved and how to do so, like humans do.

[monkee_madness]

What would you think if you were confined to a cage a couple inches larger than your body (with hundreds of the same around you), force fed bits of your own species, and then ripped apart while still breathing? Every once in a while getting kicked or having your parts cut off by large pink primates who don't speak your language and are totally oblivious to your condition? That would even be better than what they do in animal testing!

[bamzam229]

Well, if I was a chicken, I'd think: "bawk".

If I was human, like I am...I'd think: "Hmmm...how can I get out of here?"

[monkee_madness]

See, you don't KNOW that. That is what I have a problem with.