Can I rant for a minute? It's about Michael Moore, so it's OK.

[monocleostrich]

Bowling for Columbine is on right now, and it's pissing me off. In a number of ways. What the crap kind of fantasy la-la land is Moore living in? How can he bounce from being opposed to the big, evil American government in one film to his terrifyingly passive, "Please control every aspect of my life" underbelly-exposing, head-in-the-sand stance

Comments

[yamo]

It's great that he makes movies with such strong personal bias. It encourages the audience to exercise critical thinking and to educate themselves on issues. More mainstream movies like that would be useful.

The only thing I don't like are his voice and mannerisms. He's no no joy to watch.

[cranbonite]

Unfortunately, I don't think Moore tends to have that affect on anyone but people who are already thinking critically and educating themselves. There are so many people out there who like to take his work as gospel and trumpet it in arguments to make themselves sound smart

[monocleostrich]

"Unfortunately, I don't think Moore tends to have that affect on anyone but people who are already thinking critically and educating themselves. There are so many people out there who like to take his work as gospel and trumpet it in arguments to make themselves sound smart."

That is EXACTLY the way I feel about him and his movies, too. The people who are critical thinkers by nature will take what he says with a grain of salt and use it as motivation to look into the issues themselves. But how many people out there are critical thinkers compared with those who will just believe anything somebody with an important-looking movie says with no further thought about it?

[cranbonite]

Oh yeah, and the newsflash part was to Moore, not to yamo up there :P in case it looked like that. I'd very much agree with you if I thought that Moore's work did have the kinds of effects you see, but I don't see them (around me, anyway)...

[drsteggy]

OMG, I am soooo glad I can now come out of the closet. I'm not alone in being fairly liberal (I think I have mostly Libertarian leaning views as well) and hating Michael Moore.

Moore's agenda, I think, it to bring attention to Michael Moore rather than really to make any sense. I've only seen Bowling for Columbine (it wasn't my idea either) and found the KMart stunt ludicrous. Actually, I watched it as a double feature with "28 Days Later" which made my "Where in hell are the GUNS? Why is no one shooting these things?" rant 45 minutes into that film (Answer: "It is set and shot in England, dear") even more amusing.

[monocleostrich]

Oh, man. What a double feature

[monocleostrich]

I don't really get what his point IS with that film, though. He wants stores to stop selling ammunition, and he wants stronger gun control. Those are two things I strongly disagree with, but no matter - what else was his point? He seemed to just be waving his dick around and sobbing over the tragedy of people being allowed access to guns. Yes, it is horrible and awful when kids shoot each other - or when any innocent person is shot. But that doesn't mean that allowing citizens access to guns is a bad thing, either. This is not a black and white issue, and like all his films I've seen, he tries to represent it that simply

[cranbonite]

Well, I do think he had a point - and I don't think the film was ultimately about guns. Rather, I got the impression it was about the culture of fear that has been created in our country by numerous forces (sometimes opposing - e.g. the government as well as those who have an immense fear of it) and how that propagates a violent society. And I did largely agree with the point.

Just not how he went about presenting it - which I think (and your response to the film perfectly demonstrates this) shrouds the point in stunts and obnoxiousness.

[monocleostrich]

Yeah. You're right. Now that I really think back on the content, it was about the new culture of fear. That is an important topic.

But his STUPID EFFING HAM-HANDED TREATMENT OF THE TOPIC and his own personal agenda about gun control COMPLETELY fucked over my ability to interpret that as I was watching it. I mean, all he basically said was GUNS GUNS GUNS OH NO GUNS EVERYWHERE LET'S GO TO K-MART AND HARRASS A PR LADY WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH COLUMBINE LOL THAT WAS KEWL. It was hard to glean the true intent of the film at first blush. That's fine for stuff like Eyes Wide Shut, but if you're trying to change the world, maybe sticking to the outline a little better would be helpful. Or, you know, writing a clearer outline in the first place, before you begin filming.

[grombar]

One, you're absolutely right, and two, that doesn't even get into all the blatant, deliberate distortions he's so well known for.

I hate how he (a) staged that final confrontation with Heston ("Mr. Heston, please! Turn around and look at this picture!"), and (b) expected everyone to buy it. Look at the way the cameraman keeps jumping from behind to in front of him throughout that scene; unless his camera crew can teleport or turn invisible, he could only have shot the closeup of himself after the fact, long after Heston had already gone. And that's just one of the movie's many, many falsehoods and deceptions.

Bowling was a terrible movie. It had no real focus. It had no real point. He might have had a kernel of a good idea when he started, but he ended up just making a movie about himself. (Case in point: The last shot of the movie is of Michael Moore bowling a strike.)

If it's any consolation, Sicko is apparently tanking, at least compared to Fahrenheit.

[monocleostrich]

Ahh, I found a web site that details the many deceptions in this movie. Interesting stuff. The bits about how Charleton Heston was maliciously misrepresented are particularly interesting.

What an asshole.

[kilted_kelt]

Gun control idiots can always say that limiting access to guns will stop things like Columbine or VT from happening. However, if you limit access to guns then someone who wants to go on a psycho rampage will figure out another way to do it - say smuggle a chainsaw into school or build a bomb. It's not like the internet is not rife with resources to find out how to build bombs and such and there's that tome called 'The Anarchist's Cookbook'. Oh yeah, and Michael Moore is a total fuck-stick cum-choke dick-shake ass-wipe.

[monocleostrich]

Exactly. If somebody wants to kill another person, they have an almost infinite array of potential weapons - not just sharp, scary things like knives and chainsaws, but otherwise benign things like lamps and chairs. Or their own hands. There were murderous psychos before guns were ever created. People seem to forget that there have been violent massacres throughout history, not just in our own time. It's a very unfortunate part of being alive. I mean, Jesus, even chimpanzees hunt down and brutally murder chimps from other tribes, just because they're different.

I am of the opinion that the more widespread are citizens with guns, the more likely violent crime will be to decrease. It might be a slight decrease, but a slight decrease is better than the status quo.

[monocleostrich]

And by the way, if any of the students or staff who faced the VT killer had had a gun on them, it's possible that they could have stopped him from killing more people. It's not a known quantity, obviously, but it's at least possible that a citizen with a concealed carry could have stopped that jackass in his tracks when he first brandished his weapon. I can't think of many other ways to stop an armed killer other than firing back.

For obvious reasons, I also think most "gun-free zones" are retarded. About as useful and smart as the War on Drugs. Blargh.

[kilted_kelt]

Yeah, Chicago is supposed to be "hand gun free" thanks to bed-wetting liberal Mayor Daly and his cronies, but it sure as hell doesn't stop gang bangers from shooting people and car jacking them with, you guessed it - handguns! I guarantee you if criminals knew they faced the very real possibility of getting maimed or killed by their potential victims via returned fire, there'd probably be a lot less violent crime. Now down in Georgia, concealed carry was legal. Yeah!