(no subject)
The breast cancer bra meme going around facebook sparked an interesting discussion between briefsynopsis and I today...it diverged into something that has been on my mind a lot lately, and deserves some thought by anyone raising a daughter, and really, by any woman, if not by everyone.
1:51pmSadiya
maybe...i think breast cancer is a serious thing and i just feel like the whole bra thing is taking the seriousness out of it. but again, its bc of those obnoxious comments i think
1:52pmHeather
In some ways, though, it's so serious no one wants to talk about it. If this breaks the ice enough to get discussions going?
I don't know. Like I said, this wouldn't have been my choice. But it's there, and I'll start discussions where I can
1:53pmSadiya
i guess i just don't understand why its not a bigger deal already. cancer is a horrible thing and breast cancer is one of the most terrible things
its a bigger issue and im just frustrated at people's lack of respect
1:54pmHeather
I agree. But that's our culture. We don't like serious things. We're the supersize me, instant gratification, buy now pay later society.
1:54pmSadiya
and we wonder why we're as screwed up as we are
1:56pmHeather
There are some things out there that terrify me that our culture doesn't talk about. Birth is one of the most hush hush things in the US - doctors are gods, we do as they say, and don't realize how often it goes wrong because the doctor told us to do X. Breastfeeding rates are astromnomically low in the US because it's not the "easy" thing people think, and women have no support. Teenage girls commit suicide due to peer pressure - from their peers and their parents, the adults in their lives, because they have no support as they learn to handle their own sexuality. And do we say anything, as women die or are hurt all the time? No. Most people don't even know there's a problem.
Yeah, I know. We're the shut-up-and-enjoy-the-ride, worry-about-the-consequences-later society, and it's killing us. But who knows or cares?
1:57pmSadiya
i couldn't have said it better
1:57pmHeather
Sorry, I'm ranting, but some things right now literally terrify me, especially now that I'm raising a daughter.
1:58pmSadiya
believe me, i have these conversations with ian on a regular basis. i'm petrified of how safaa is going to grow up
1:59pmHeather
I wish I could get Keith to talk more about it with me. He's quiet. Sometimes, guys don't understand until it happens to the women in their lives. Academically, they recognize societal issues. But if it doesn't touch their family, they feel it's not their place.
1:59pmSadiya
i think its because they feel like they need to protect you and if you talk about something that they can't solve, they feel powerless which eats at them
there are certian things that ian refuses to talk about bc he feels like he can't do anything
2:00pmHeather
That's exactly it
2:01pmSadiya
i know i won't be able to change that mentality so i just end up venting to my friends about it or write in my journal (which i need to do more of)
2:03pmHeather
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/34236377/ns/today-today_people/
2:04pmSadiya
this is so sad!
2:05pmHeather
This article makes me so angry and so scared. That little girl killed herself because her peers and the adults in her life made her feel like her life was over because she did something that was inappropriate. She flashed a guy. OMG! The horror. Was it good that a 13 year old flashed a boy? No - obviously not. But this little girl was shamed into thinking she had done the WORST THING EVER, and she killed herself. And the adults in her life are saddened over how "inevitable" it was. Inevitable my ass! If she had had supportive people to TEACH her and help her learn from this, that little girl wouldn't be dead
2:06pmHeather
It is so sad. And what's sadder is that that happens a lot. But most of the time, it doesn't even make the newspaper. Occasionally, we get an online article like this =/
2:06pmSadiya
this is exactly what scares me. girls have this pressure to be sexual if they wnat attention. from an early age, they're taught that they need to catch the attention of men by reducing themselves to a sexual figure. why don't we teach kids that men need to respect women?!
if this boy sent pictures of his penis via text, i'm sure he would have gotten props for it
2:08pmHeather
I know! I bet he would have had a detention, but would he have had a week suspension? Grounded and removed from his social support system for the summer? Unlikely.
2:08pmSadiya
and her parents, instead of talking to her about it, what'd they do? they grounded her and took away her phone
2:08pmHeather
But how do we teach our daughters otherwise when everywhere they turn that message is repeated - that to be interacted with, they have to be a sex object? And then if they act sexually, they're punished?
2:09pmSadiya
she's already isolated, they pushed it to another level
2:09pmHeather
I know. What were they thinking? Yes, tech her that this was not a safe or good move - but don't punish her. She punished herself enough!
I know.
2:09pmSadiya
my cousin's daugther is turning 13 this year, i'm so scared for her
i keep trying to talk to her and telling her that im here to listen if she ever needs someone
i really hope that she does come to me if ANYTHING happens
2:10pmHeather
My cousin is 12 now, and she has one of those bodies that makes her look much older. If she makes a dumb mistake, does she have the support to learn and heal?
So I know exactly what you mean.
It's hard though. And I worry - will Lily and I have the kind of relationship that makes her feel safe to come to me if she's scared or torn, or if something is going on? How can I make sure she feels safe enough?
2:11pmSadiya
what's worse is that the pressure was huge when we were teenagers so i dont evne know how it is now
2:11pmHeather
And I don't know the answer. Which scares me.
2:12pmSadiya
i think we just need to keep reassuring them that we won't get mad, no matter how big the problem is and that we won't judge them
2:12pmHeather
But that little girl's parents didn't do that, and I wonder if they even knew
2:13pmSadiya
yeah, but when they found out what'd they do?
2:13pmHeather
No, I mean - I wonder if today they know how much they contributed to her death, or if they just mourn that they didn't catch her "mental illness" in time.
2:14pmSadiya
i dont know...i guess we'll never know
2:15pmHeather
Sorry, I didn't mean to rant or talk your ear off. It's just so frightening to me, and more so because it is so silent.
2:15pmSadiya
no problem. i'm glad you did
this is the kind of stuff people need to talk about
2:15pmHeather
Hey, do you mind if I paste this convo into my journal? I think we hit a lot of salient points, and some of the other ladies on my flist will probably have insight, too.
2:16pmSadiya
not a problem
go for it
2:16pmHeather
I know. But how do you get them to talk?
2:16pmSadiya
you make the first move...you talk about it...i think kids need to hear from their parents about mistakes they made
we expect kids to be open about their lives but really, as adults, how open are we about ours to our kids?
2:17pmHeather
Oh, crap - I just cleared my chat history. Dang it! Oh well. XD
<-- idiot moment
2:17pmSadiya
lol
let me copy and paste and email it to you
1:51pmSadiya
maybe...i think breast cancer is a serious thing and i just feel like the whole bra thing is taking the seriousness out of it. but again, its bc of those obnoxious comments i think
1:52pmHeather
In some ways, though, it's so serious no one wants to talk about it. If this breaks the ice enough to get discussions going?
I don't know. Like I said, this wouldn't have been my choice. But it's there, and I'll start discussions where I can
1:53pmSadiya
i guess i just don't understand why its not a bigger deal already. cancer is a horrible thing and breast cancer is one of the most terrible things
its a bigger issue and im just frustrated at people's lack of respect
1:54pmHeather
I agree. But that's our culture. We don't like serious things. We're the supersize me, instant gratification, buy now pay later society.
1:54pmSadiya
and we wonder why we're as screwed up as we are
1:56pmHeather
There are some things out there that terrify me that our culture doesn't talk about. Birth is one of the most hush hush things in the US - doctors are gods, we do as they say, and don't realize how often it goes wrong because the doctor told us to do X. Breastfeeding rates are astromnomically low in the US because it's not the "easy" thing people think, and women have no support. Teenage girls commit suicide due to peer pressure - from their peers and their parents, the adults in their lives, because they have no support as they learn to handle their own sexuality. And do we say anything, as women die or are hurt all the time? No. Most people don't even know there's a problem.
Yeah, I know. We're the shut-up-and-enjoy-the-ride, worry-about-the-consequences-later society, and it's killing us. But who knows or cares?
1:57pmSadiya
i couldn't have said it better
1:57pmHeather
Sorry, I'm ranting, but some things right now literally terrify me, especially now that I'm raising a daughter.
1:58pmSadiya
believe me, i have these conversations with ian on a regular basis. i'm petrified of how safaa is going to grow up
1:59pmHeather
I wish I could get Keith to talk more about it with me. He's quiet. Sometimes, guys don't understand until it happens to the women in their lives. Academically, they recognize societal issues. But if it doesn't touch their family, they feel it's not their place.
1:59pmSadiya
i think its because they feel like they need to protect you and if you talk about something that they can't solve, they feel powerless which eats at them
there are certian things that ian refuses to talk about bc he feels like he can't do anything
2:00pmHeather
That's exactly it
2:01pmSadiya
i know i won't be able to change that mentality so i just end up venting to my friends about it or write in my journal (which i need to do more of)
2:03pmHeather
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/34236377/ns/today-today_people/
2:04pmSadiya
this is so sad!
2:05pmHeather
This article makes me so angry and so scared. That little girl killed herself because her peers and the adults in her life made her feel like her life was over because she did something that was inappropriate. She flashed a guy. OMG! The horror. Was it good that a 13 year old flashed a boy? No - obviously not. But this little girl was shamed into thinking she had done the WORST THING EVER, and she killed herself. And the adults in her life are saddened over how "inevitable" it was. Inevitable my ass! If she had had supportive people to TEACH her and help her learn from this, that little girl wouldn't be dead
2:06pmHeather
It is so sad. And what's sadder is that that happens a lot. But most of the time, it doesn't even make the newspaper. Occasionally, we get an online article like this =/
2:06pmSadiya
this is exactly what scares me. girls have this pressure to be sexual if they wnat attention. from an early age, they're taught that they need to catch the attention of men by reducing themselves to a sexual figure. why don't we teach kids that men need to respect women?!
if this boy sent pictures of his penis via text, i'm sure he would have gotten props for it
2:08pmHeather
I know! I bet he would have had a detention, but would he have had a week suspension? Grounded and removed from his social support system for the summer? Unlikely.
2:08pmSadiya
and her parents, instead of talking to her about it, what'd they do? they grounded her and took away her phone
2:08pmHeather
But how do we teach our daughters otherwise when everywhere they turn that message is repeated - that to be interacted with, they have to be a sex object? And then if they act sexually, they're punished?
2:09pmSadiya
she's already isolated, they pushed it to another level
2:09pmHeather
I know. What were they thinking? Yes, tech her that this was not a safe or good move - but don't punish her. She punished herself enough!
I know.
2:09pmSadiya
my cousin's daugther is turning 13 this year, i'm so scared for her
i keep trying to talk to her and telling her that im here to listen if she ever needs someone
i really hope that she does come to me if ANYTHING happens
2:10pmHeather
My cousin is 12 now, and she has one of those bodies that makes her look much older. If she makes a dumb mistake, does she have the support to learn and heal?
So I know exactly what you mean.
It's hard though. And I worry - will Lily and I have the kind of relationship that makes her feel safe to come to me if she's scared or torn, or if something is going on? How can I make sure she feels safe enough?
2:11pmSadiya
what's worse is that the pressure was huge when we were teenagers so i dont evne know how it is now
2:11pmHeather
And I don't know the answer. Which scares me.
2:12pmSadiya
i think we just need to keep reassuring them that we won't get mad, no matter how big the problem is and that we won't judge them
2:12pmHeather
But that little girl's parents didn't do that, and I wonder if they even knew
2:13pmSadiya
yeah, but when they found out what'd they do?
2:13pmHeather
No, I mean - I wonder if today they know how much they contributed to her death, or if they just mourn that they didn't catch her "mental illness" in time.
2:14pmSadiya
i dont know...i guess we'll never know
2:15pmHeather
Sorry, I didn't mean to rant or talk your ear off. It's just so frightening to me, and more so because it is so silent.
2:15pmSadiya
no problem. i'm glad you did
this is the kind of stuff people need to talk about
2:15pmHeather
Hey, do you mind if I paste this convo into my journal? I think we hit a lot of salient points, and some of the other ladies on my flist will probably have insight, too.
2:16pmSadiya
not a problem
go for it
2:16pmHeather
I know. But how do you get them to talk?
2:16pmSadiya
you make the first move...you talk about it...i think kids need to hear from their parents about mistakes they made
we expect kids to be open about their lives but really, as adults, how open are we about ours to our kids?
2:17pmHeather
Oh, crap - I just cleared my chat history. Dang it! Oh well. XD
<-- idiot moment
2:17pmSadiya
lol
let me copy and paste and email it to you