This...

Jan 22, 2032 20:30

...Is an excellent piece on racism, esp. the casual racism amongst white liberal types.The writer makes some really good points--bounce-up-and-down-pointing-at-the-screen-and-going-YES-THIS! points--and makes them in accessible, relatively jargon-free language, yet. (Wow, who knew it was possible to write about racism and social justice from a ( Read more... )

Leave a comment

Comments 14

gair January 22 2010, 20:20:58 UTC
Oh, Fugitivus is just amazing, isn't she? ::hearts her::

I've noticed before that Americans tend to talk about race and class as synonymous - or, I mean, that when they say 'black' and 'white' (or 'of colour' and 'white') they mean 'poor black' and 'middle-class white'. And there's a big overlap/relation between class and race, of course, but you're right (you're being right a lot today...) about a poor/working-class white girl facing the same questions as Fugitivus' black friend. (Though I wonder whether this is more true in the UK, where we do love to hate on the chavs? I mean that I think class hatred is more visible in the UK than the US.... Hmm.)

This, though:

Classism relies on conjuring up phantom weaknesses of character--impulsivity, laziness, stupidity, greed, etc--and attributing poverty to these.

Yes. (I can't remember where I came across it now - a random 19th-century book in a library sale, I think, but I can't remember if it was early genetics or early anthropology or, like, that thing where you look at the bumps on ( ... )

Reply

Fugitivus is composed wholly of Love and Win mordantcarnival January 22 2010, 20:44:51 UTC
Oh thankyou! I am glad you think it is OK, I worry about tackling this kind of stuff because eventually I am sure to say something hopelessly stupid and I worry that instead of pulling me up people will decide that I'm irredeemably wankoholic and leave without saying anything, and I won't even know that what I said was stupid or why. But you are awesome so if you like it then it must be all right ( ... )

Reply

Re: Fugitivus is composed wholly of Love and Win gair January 22 2010, 22:29:25 UTC
There are definately white poor people in the US (a lot of the heathen & pagan folks I interact with are on/near the poverty line). But you sort of wouldn't know it to hear not-poor white people talk.

Yeah, totally - I just realized when I said 'Americans' up there I meant 'middle-class white Americans'! I don't think that classism doesn't exist in America, or that class and race are synonymous in the US, but... class seems to be less obsessively represented/talked about in the US liberal mainstream than it is in the UK? It's a whole set of strange translations, which sometimes work and sometimes... don't, and now my brane has gone to sleep and I can't figure out what I mean anyway, so I'm going to stop.

(Though I am quietly beaming to myself at being called awesome by someone who IS IN FACT hirself awesome. Hee.)

Reply

Re: Fugitivus is composed wholly of Love and Win dolphinish January 23 2010, 02:13:28 UTC
Americans in the poverty trap seem to have a far worse time of it than UK folks, mostly because of the healthcare issue. It is possible to become royally fucked up by poverty in the US a lot faster and in new and special ways simply because of the whole no-NHS issue. It's terrifying. (I have nightmares about American friends getting hurt or sick or needing abortions, and wake up wanting to cry.)

It's not just the healthcare issue. It's the fact our entire social service system is a giant pieced together patchwork of services that may or may not actually come together to form a quilt.

(Not to mention how much variation there is by state. That's a whole other issue.)

There are definitely white poor people in the US (a lot of the heathen & pagan folks I interact with are on/near the poverty line). But you sort of wouldn't know it to hear not-poor white people talk. I don't know why, it seems so odd.I think at least some of this is visibility. Poor whites are often rural/small town, poor minorities are in cities and sometimes highly ( ... )

Reply


madir_eyes January 22 2010, 20:47:31 UTC
Oh gods yes.

Even if you hit hard times and were reasonably prosperous at one point people get like this. Story of my life.

In one breath they say "but your shoes have holes!" and in the next it's "why did you buy new shoes? you have bills!"

It's the same for food and everything else and for gods sake here in the US all about medical care...let's not even go there. Even though huge numbers of people here are uninsured it's like it's some kind of horrible personal secret that the medical staff wince at when they find out you're self-pay. They look at you like "OMG how do you not have health insurance what will you DO???" *grumbles*

Reply


anonymous January 23 2010, 17:01:28 UTC
Poor-ism is definitely alive and well, speaking as a poor white person who would rather spend her money on "trying to improve my situation" (disability notwithstanding) than on "keeping up appearances/my faaaabulous lifestyle" - which is still a false dichotomy, really. Let me see, what am I ALLOWED to spend my money on? Should I really be buying that doughnut/warm coat/bottle of wine/book/piss up in the pub/squishy cake/shoes/train ticket?

Nobody makes these kind of judgements to my face (the government have yet to stamp our heads with the words BENEFITS SCUM) but the Daily Mail do a good job of presenting me and people like me as something to be vilified, feared and hated. I try and keep Richard Littlejohn and his ilk out of my head and just get on with my life. It can be a pain in the arse when the personal gets dragged into the political. I'm not looking forward to what might happen after the next election...

Jo

P.s One of my windows has been broken for three years, but it is my landlord's fault...Honest =P

Reply

rowcherumble January 23 2010, 17:02:31 UTC
Uh sorry, i'm not anonymous....

Reply

mordantcarnival January 24 2010, 16:15:30 UTC
When I was on the dole it was pretty obvious to the people in my neighbourhood. I was around during the day, queueing up in the post office to cash my giro while they were buying stamps or getting their pensions, etc... and then they'd be in the same supermarket later on. Really grindingly unpleasant after a while.

Reply

rowcherumble January 24 2010, 17:25:15 UTC
When I was younger I got giros, but thank god for direct payments! The only people who know are the Co-op bank - and the people in our local branch are really lovely people, I've never met so many people who are so happy to work in a bank. They're even nice to us when they look at the computer and realise that our credit rating is beyond help...
Must be something in the water cooler.

Reply


luna_virgo January 27 2010, 09:39:36 UTC
This is an extremely minor point, but...colour television? Is that a luxury in the UK? I haven't actually seen a black & white tv in a store here in a really long time. Not even in Walmart.

Reply

rowcherumble January 27 2010, 18:46:35 UTC
They're not a luxury now, not at all - hardly anyone has a black and white now, and I don't even think you could buy one now. When I was a kid we were Dole Scum for a few years and we didn't get a colour TV unti 1989.

and we lived int'cardboard box int'middle oft'road etc...with a lump o' poison f'tea...

Reply


Leave a comment

Up