Comments | motherism: Wow: Linda Hirshman on the wage gap

bosssio in motherism

Wow: Linda Hirshman on the wage gap

Jun 04, 2007 13:27

Wow, I am not sure exactly where to start with her analysis, other than yet again, the fault for gender discrimination, according to her, is laid at women's feet.

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You're Not Earning as Much as the Guys? Here's Why.

By Linda Hirshman Sunday, June 3, 2007; Page B01

Ah, graduation -- that time of optimism, of looking to the future and its ( Read more... )

Comments 23

kcobweb June 4 2007, 18:34:31 UTC

My thought was - well, someone has work for local governments and non-profits. And then she said that, but grudgingly and without really following up on it.

Maybe we should be teaching more men about altruism.

Instead of being an English major who works for non-profits, I should have forced myself to become an engineer, even though I had no aptitude for it, and would have hated it, because at least I would have made a better salary? Sorry, I'm not buying that. Maybe women are smarter than men and have figured out that salary is not the sole measure of worth, and that other things are important too (like say, doing a job you love and feel proud of).

No, never mind. It must be my fault.

bosssio June 4 2007, 19:01:21 UTC

yes, my thoughts exactly. Personally, I don't measure my self-worth by how much money I earn - I would, however, like to earn as much as men in a similar position and industry.

btw, her snip at "being president of the ford foundation" was interesting when you consider that most presidents of foundations earn substantially more than their workers (like 10x more)- who are predominantly women or gay men - and yet are still predominantly white straight males.

http://www.philanthropy.com/premium/articles/v18/i24/benefits.htm

bosssio June 4 2007, 19:05:58 UTC

I just did some digging: Susan V. Berresford, president of the Ford Foundation, earned over $700K in 2005. Poor lamb - look what her degree
in American history at Radcliffe College saddled her with - how can anyone bear to live on such a paltry salary?

http://www.philanthropy.com/free/articles/v18/i24/24003901.htm

cigogne June 6 2007, 11:00:07 UTC

Hello! I got here via a friend who linked to this post. Do hope it's OK to weigh in...

If more women look for jobs in traditionally higher-paid fields, there will be a glut of potential stockbrokers and engineers and a relative shortage of teachers and social workers. That should even things up a bit.

Thread 7

rivka June 4 2007, 19:20:43 UTC

Oh my God, I'm tearing my hair out.

This male classics major who is giving up his "passion" in order to go into finance... is someone being held up for women to emulate? What the hell? It's so ludicrously reductionistic. The only value of a career is the salary.

kcobweb June 4 2007, 19:30:39 UTC

But that's his *job* - to be a provider.

Gods, it's just like my grandfather, who wanted to be an artist, but his parents wouldn't let him, so he went into insurance. No wonder he drank.

bosssio June 4 2007, 19:34:23 UTC

I agree and you bring up an excellent point - I do think we do a disservice to our cause when we forget how constrained MEN are in their life choices by strict gender roles. How many artists or teachers or at home dads are we cheated out of because of this equation that male=breadwinner.

Interestingly, when I went back for my 10 year high school reunion a few years back, two guys (out of a class of 58) - completely separately - had made a ton of $$ in business, were burnt out, and were going to get their teaching certification because they desperately wanted some meaning in their lives. They had that "luxury" now because they had been smart with their earnings (and weren't married/had kids).

kathrynt June 4 2007, 20:05:09 UTC

This, exactly. I'm finding as I look around me more and more that there are a lot of different models of "good woman" even in the most shallow pop-culture stereotype; there's the Ass-Kicking Adventurer, the Domestic Goddess, the High-Powered Professional, the Sexpot, the Supermom, the Spiritual Guru. But there's really only one model for "Good Man;" aggressive, well-compensated, unemotional, and a good provider.

I'm not saying that the "Good Woman" models are acheivable or empowering, just that they're diverse. The presence of a diversity of options implies that other, undiscovered options are also available. But if you're given one option for Success and numerous other options for Failure, it's a lot harder to internalize that there might be alternative Success conditions.

Thread 6

dramasequalzero June 4 2007, 22:19:52 UTC

So how does Hirshamn account for phenomenon of occupations which started out as "male" declining in social status (and earning potential) after they became seen as women's work (e.g. the feminisation of clerical work)?

Grrr!

I just joined by the way - hi everyone!
*waves*

bosssio June 5 2007, 00:28:24 UTC

just read on the wash post comments bosssio June 5 2007, 03:40:21 UTC

My favorite so far

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Women pursuing careers in non-profits and local governments are losers who deserve the poverty coming to them. Women who become corporate executives and hi-tech engineers will find happiness and empowerment with the huge paycheck just like their male counterparts. Ah yes, another message brought to you by the United States corporate establishment. The elitist tone of this article makes me ill.

hi, occasional lurker, first time poster - biascut June 5 2007, 19:30:45 UTC

Wow, I'm really surprised that this article hasn't generated more interesting discussion. I think it's a hugely important issue, and one I've been thinking about for a few months now ( ... )

Re: hi, occasional lurker, first time poster - bosssio June 5 2007, 20:06:21 UTC

what great insight ( ... )

Re: hi, occasional lurker, first time poster - biascut June 6 2007, 02:37:32 UTC

Leslie Bennetts (her book about how choosing to be a SAHM is idiotic ... We SHOULD be talking about the fact that if women ... are more likely than ever to be primary breadwinner for their kids ... that does need to inform their choices about about career choices, time off, savings, investments, etc.

I haven't read the book, but from what I've read about it, isn't that exactly what she's doing - arguing that women should assess the potential implications of taking a career break from the point of view of statistical probability? That she's focussing on a privileged few is a valid criticism, but to be honest, pretty much any mainstream feminist book is going to focus on a privileged group one way or another, and I'm unconvinced that it's a reason to discount the argument entirely.

I do agree that Hirshman's article assumes that not reaching one's "true potential" is a Bad Thing without examining the reasons why it might be a Bad Thing, and doesn't entertain any possibilities that there might be other value systems in play. But it ( ... )

Re: hi, occasional lurker, first time poster - bosssio June 6 2007, 13:23:46 UTC

I haven't read the book, but from what I've read about it, isn't that exactly what she's doing - arguing that women should assess the potential implications of taking a career break from the point of view of statistical probability?Leslie Bennetts and Linda Hirshman both have the same problem - they are sharing relevant facts and issues but their tone and content of their analysis is "women, you are soooo STUPID! Look at your STUPID choices ( ... )