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chienne_folle June 10 2020, 00:37:21 UTC
There's been an enormous shift in my lifetime. When I was in my teens, 20's, and 30's, the progressive thing was to say that one's gender is defined strictly and completely by what's between your legs. The reason that was considered progressive was because it meant that you could wear whatever you wanted, work at whatever job you wanted, love whoever you wanted, have whatever personality was natural to you, and NONE of that could take your gender away from you. It was a position that was designed to push back against a world where people were told that "real" men didn't cry or cook or be gentle or wear colors and "real" women didn't swear or wear trousers or be assertive or work on cars. I'm a woman because I have female genitals, and this frees me to fix my own car, be assertive, wear trousers, and do other things that were seen as things that women "didn't" do ( ... )

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therealsnape June 10 2020, 06:59:10 UTC
That was a very thoughtful and well-formulated comment. Thank you for taking the time to write this, I enjoyed reading it.

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chienne_folle June 10 2020, 16:20:29 UTC
Thank you!

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orlando_switch June 10 2020, 23:41:35 UTC
Thanks for your lovely comment but I am afraid JKR totally doesn't get it.
She has written an essay to explain and defend herself and I've written a long post about it to reply about some of her statements, plus the link to the essay itself.

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chienne_folle June 10 2020, 23:56:33 UTC
I will go read your post, which will no doubt be enlightening. :-)

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orlando_switch June 11 2020, 00:17:05 UTC
Thank you, I'd like that.

My post is in a way less personal than yours, although I am royally pissed about her essay, since I've only written some replies at some of her misconceptions and not so much about my own experiences. Though it's of course crystal clear how I feel about it.

But I must say, I am even more intrigued what your opinion of her essay will be. Since in my experience, apart from using a lot of wrong facts about transgenders, it basically is an essay of someone who is deeply traumatized by negative experiences with men in her own life. And now going all gung ho to protect women from evil transwomen who don't exist in the way she describes them.

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too_dle_oo June 11 2020, 02:20:48 UTC
Traumatic experiences at the hands of men. Yep. She can’t look past that.

Which... it’s an old cliché that hurt people often go out and hurt people, but when you have as large a platform as she does, I wish she would consider the damage she’s doing to young kids out there. Thank goodness Harry himself came out against her.

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mywitch July 24 2020, 02:14:44 UTC
It would be a better world if everyone thought more before they say and do, yeah? Me included

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mywitch July 24 2020, 02:14:09 UTC
It's frustrating. 😔

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nocturnus33 June 11 2020, 01:59:42 UTC
So well said. I'm a Latin Catholic that grew up in a conservative dictatorship during the '70s and '80s. I was homophobic without even knowing I was so. In fact, I doubt I knew gay people existed for the most part of my teens years. I was always drawn to a liberal kind of second-generation feminism. 12 years ago, I asked my first lesbian friend what the T and the B for LGTB meant. That was the deep of my ignorance. It has been a long walk for me. Reading your comment made me thought about what made me change my attitudes. I think there were two main issues: 1. Being friends and meeting people made me revise my notions. You just can't love people and hold prejudices. 2. Leaving behind essentialist views on life, which help me revised any norm. My kids, who are in their twenties, criticised me as not progressive enough. I reckon I struggle to grasp certain things and, what I once learn as progressive, today is obsolete. Epistemic vigilance over one's conceptions is a must and should be practised daily. If well-meant past Nocturnus came ( ... )

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orlando_switch June 11 2020, 03:24:29 UTC
The beautiful thing is noticing that change is possible, that people can learn and evolve.

Exactly, and there is no age limit to it. You've made a wonderful journey and are still on your way (as we all are).
Just out of curiousity, you are talking about your children, but how's your hubby reacting? Does he appreciate your change?

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nocturnus33 June 11 2020, 14:53:17 UTC
Is difficult to describe, he has changed a lot since I meet him. He mostly agrees with me yet, when it comes to feminism, I think he feels I'm a little exaggerated. I can describe it as "hubby in the middle". He has both, a working-class and 9 years studying to become a priest background which marks his earlier experiences. In our domesticity, he is the one who takes charge of our home and the kids. He is proud of my career yet he feels shame about not being the main provider. He is pro-gay rights (Remember we don't have gay marriage here nor is it possible to adopt). Yet, he has difficulties understanding certain jokes are offensive, he sees it as "just a joke". He is open to learning: I had a friend whose boy is transgender. He invited them both to give testimony to a training course for headteachers. After that, he started studying the topic as he was deeply touched by their story. [Silvia, my friend was a devoted mother with a fierceness that moved mountains]. Hubby is very sensitive to people suffering and social unjustice. I ( ... )

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orlando_switch June 19 2020, 21:23:05 UTC
I love this story about your husband so much. It's so nice he has the willingness to learn and grow and that he supports your career so much, even if he feels ashamed about not being the main provider (I guess that has to do with the values he has been raised with).
And I also like the way you talk about him. It seems you can accept that his views are both shaped by his social class and by his education and that his sensitivity for social justice is a huge driving force for him to learn more.

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nocturnus33 June 19 2020, 21:33:19 UTC
I believe we all are full of inner contradictions. I doubt any of us has a full coherent world view. I know nature and nurture define us but we are able to move past it, yet been defined by it at the same time. At the end of the day, our freedom is a narrow path and not a wide avenue, or so I think.

What I value of him is his humble efforts to change his views when realizing they could be oppressive. He is a man of profound solidarity, and that is something I admire in him (And it often drives me crazy when I'm dragged down by the consequences of his selfless acts)

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orlando_switch June 19 2020, 22:05:22 UTC
At the end of the day, our freedom is a narrow path and not a wide avenue, or so I think.
I totally agree. The people with an inner freedom that is just present in almost every situation are rare, I think.
Most of us constantly need to choose the path that brings us most freedom at that moment or in that particular circumstance, I think.

(And it often drives me crazy when I'm dragged down by the consequences of his selfless acts)
O I can understand that too. You already told us he has difficulties in saying 'no' to people, so i guess he often surprises you with things he has already agreed to.. I totally see that happen.

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nocturnus33 June 19 2020, 22:19:11 UTC
Yes, it's his virtue and his vice. I made a rule at home early in our marriage: Everything he wants to give away must be vetoed by me. I'm the stereotype of the evil bossy wife. Muahahaha.

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