Comments | nclean: Too much research not associated with my degree

nclean

Too much research not associated with my degree

Mar 11, 2009 22:05

Other people know more about much of this than me. Anyone got any input (Hey Nicki!)
Sorry about the crappy formatting! Updating to include suggestions by commenters will come with changes for vague completeness - later
Establishing guidelines for
catering for special dietary needs
An introduction: Why guidelines are needed
( more... )

Comments 12

actrealdon March 11 2009, 11:24:05 UTC

A statistical point: you appear to be measuring the chance of zero dietary restricted attendees vs. non-zero (i.e. one or more).

Which is worse: having two coeliacs turn up to a 70-100 person event and having catered one meal, or having catered none?

I don't know the answer to this one, but if you're going to use statistics you need to consider both sides of the distribution.

nclean March 13 2009, 04:52:47 UTC

Yeah, but the brainless application of statistics also solves a solution to the problem - I mean, what are the chances of two coeliacs turning up to an event of 70 people? That's like a one-in-a-million! (by which, I mean, 7 in 1000) And it's not like they cluster together or anything.

I do agree with the insinuation that it would probably be more annoying to have one coeliac meal prepared for two, than none (for one or two). However, the unlikelihood of that happening mitigates the annoyance in the outcome density.

A practical solution would probably to have the "odd-bod" catering gernerally coeliac-friendly. *shrug*

actrealdon March 13 2009, 05:33:03 UTC

Assuming coeliacs are 1% of the population, the probabilities of n coeliacs turning up to a 70 person event are:
0 = 49%
1 = 35%
2 = 12%
3 or more = 4%

So there is a pretty significant likelihood of two coeliacs turning up.

If you agree that catering only one coeliac meal is only optimal if one coeliac turns up, and not zero, two, three, etc., then your table should only consider the probability of that optimal event, which is 35% for 70 people, not 49%.

I agree that more thought should be put into catering for dietary restrictions at these events, but I disagree with bad statistics. :)

nclean March 15 2009, 05:34:00 UTC

Well, OK, I fucked up there!

etfb March 11 2009, 12:17:13 UTC

Experience with running feasts and choir camps was that things become simpler if you advertise in advance that dietary weirdnesses will be catered for if and only if the cooks are notified in advance. Tell us a month before that you only eat lemons, deep-fried Mars Bars and wool, and we may make you a nice fluffy tangy chocolatey heartattacky main meal; show up on the night and expect to be fed without warning and you'll be given a glass of water and a takeaway pizza menu if you're lucky.

This doesn't help for events where people come along without booking, obviously, but it's useful for the rest.

The other point that more places should acknowledge is that it's easier and cheaper to produce an all-vegetarian bill of fare (with the vegan stuff and allergens clearly labelled) than it is to produce two parallel streams. SCUNA did that for years and saved a lot of hassle, though Woody did have to order out...

nclean March 13 2009, 04:34:17 UTC

Well, to a point, that's sorta supposed to be covered by "use the best info available". However, I think it's worth making separate - these suggested guidelines are really about events with walk-up attendees.

tigerdenbodu March 11 2009, 21:12:12 UTC

The incidence of intolerances is higher than that of allergies. Salicylate is usually an intolerance, as is amines. To complicate matters people with those intolerances usually have a reaction threshold (they can eat x amount without incident) and also salicylate/amines are quite complex to cater for for those not familiar with them.
Another intolerance that is finally being identified in the population is fructose.

Lowest common denominator can only work for subsets of people with dietary restrictions. I met someone last year who has a lettuce intolerance, and iceberg lettuce is the only food I know of that I can eat without restriction and get no symptoms.

My muslim friend reminds me that vegetarianism isn't a subset of halal (and hates having to eat vegetarian food). Ingredients like teriyaki sauce and wine vinegar are not permitted due to their (low) alcohol content.

nclean March 13 2009, 04:44:25 UTC

Hm, I couldn't easily find useful info on intolerance rates.

The point of pointing out the lowest-common-denominator thing is more so that people don't try to use the guidelines as an avenue to whinge about why they don't get a special meal, even though they are able to eat what's provided. Perhaps phrasing it in terms closer to that would be helpful.

And yes, Halal is not a veggo subset - it's a lot more complicated than just what types of food are OK. I'd draw an analogy between halal and "process vegans" rather than "demand side vegans".

pyrrha17 March 11 2009, 23:43:06 UTC

Interesting reading :)

traeemery March 12 2009, 10:57:35 UTC

Wow, I can tell you're an engineer and not writing for a business audience. Writing style asside, I'm wondering why you feel the need to make this particular point. Having learnt my catering skills predominantly through university clubs, one thing they do really well seems to be coping with strange diets. (Although, maybe not the engineering sausage sizzle.)
BTW, your assumptions on rates of vegetarianism are taking the general population and not the university one. I take vegans/vegos to be a 1 in 5 for choir events.
How about rather that weighing something like this down with statistics, provide practical suggestions/solutions. I don't like the all vego all the time solution though. (Sorry, etfb.) And one easy fix for allergys is to not have any allergens in the kitchen. As for intollerances, there are some like the salicylate/amine ones that are almost impossible to do with limited budgest bulk catering unless you have a caterer of considerable skill.

nclean March 13 2009, 05:30:10 UTC

The writing style is more of a hodge-podge-I'm-rushed-cramming-real-research-and-personal-commentary than trying to adress an audience! :P

As for why I'm making the point, it's because

1) many uni/student association events don't cater to veggos, or don't cater well. Yet, somehow, the Engineers DO cater well for veggos ( ... )

traeemery March 14 2009, 04:39:55 UTC

OK, I see what you're trying to do, but I think less on the statisitcal approach and more on the practical advice. If you want to put this forward as a C&S policy/guideline, what you have above is a nice prelude or justification, but it does nothing for equiping clubs for dealing with the issue. Stats are nice but misleading. (The vego stat is from my experience a severve underestimate. The MonUCS vegetarianism rate is double that. While the coeliac rate is twice what my experience tells me to expect ( ... )