Interesting. I've been arguing with A over whether the straight cuts have any place in German Longsword. Meyer includes them, but the original Meisterhaus omit Mittlehau and Unterhau.
'Know your enemy'. In order to train to defeat the ordinary fencer someone has to play the part of the ordinary fencer and do it convincingly. Beyond that? Not really.
As to cuts, it seems to me that ordinary fencers strike from the four quarters (generally roughly diagonal but including the full spectrum from near vertical to horizontal). I.33 almost exclusively targets the head and neck, either blows from the bind or thrusts, so there really aren't any full cuts to speak of!
I also think it's essential that one doesn't train to defeat particular moves but any attack from each quarter. Too often, people train to fight themselves - German longsword vs German longsword, I.33 vs I.33, etc. To do so makes for sport not martial art.
One has to work within the system to learn it but I think that. subsequently, it's important to fence against other weapons and styles to be sure both that the system works and that one is doing it right!
I fenced recently with sword and buckler against Kim Young who used Fiore longsword. I found I did well closing off the upper quarters but she got a couple of marvellous thrusts to body in from a low quarter. I wasn't closing off the lower quarters correctly and the few inches extra length of her sword also required a slight adjustment of technique.
So, I've adjusted my interpretation accordingly and now need to try it out. I also need to spend more time simply practising and freeplaying to become a better fencer:
"For practice is better than art, your exercise does well without the art, but the art is not much good without the exercise"! (Dobringer) 80)
This concerns Leichtenauer's longsword but precisely presents the idiom we've be working in when looking at I.33:
Bold and in the vor, get in the first blow and the second. Never stand in a guard Always moving, to be still is to be dead
He emphasizes simplicity and directness in combat and decries complexity. I have no doubt that Meyer is 'good stuff' but wonder whether much of Meyer's teachings beyond the basic simplicity is an accumulation of useful skill or of needless complexity.
Comments 5
So, would you teach the natural stuff in I33?
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As to cuts, it seems to me that ordinary fencers strike from the four quarters (generally roughly diagonal but including the full spectrum from near vertical to horizontal). I.33 almost exclusively targets the head and neck, either blows from the bind or thrusts, so there really aren't any full cuts to speak of!
I also think it's essential that one doesn't train to defeat particular moves but any attack from each quarter. Too often, people train to fight themselves - German longsword vs German longsword, I.33 vs I.33, etc. To do so makes for sport not martial art.
Reply
Reply
One has to work within the system to learn it but I think that. subsequently, it's important to fence against other weapons and styles to be sure both that the system works and that one is doing it right!
I fenced recently with sword and buckler against Kim Young who used Fiore longsword. I found I did well closing off the upper quarters but she got a couple of marvellous thrusts to body in from a low quarter. I wasn't closing off the lower quarters correctly and the few inches extra length of her sword also required a slight adjustment of technique.
So, I've adjusted my interpretation accordingly and now need to try it out. I also need to spend more time simply practising and freeplaying to become a better fencer:
"For practice is better than art, your exercise does well without the art, but the art is not much good without the exercise"! (Dobringer) 80)
Reply
http://tinyurl.com/67tytg3
This concerns Leichtenauer's longsword but precisely presents the idiom we've be working in when looking at I.33:
Bold and in the vor, get in the first blow and the second.
Never stand in a guard
Always moving, to be still is to be dead
He emphasizes simplicity and directness in combat and decries complexity. I have no doubt that Meyer is 'good stuff' but wonder whether much of Meyer's teachings beyond the basic simplicity is an accumulation of useful skill or of needless complexity.
Reply
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